Eternal Recurrence

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam: I would think of this in one sense only, and that is in the way the soul learns. Sometimes the lesson needs to be repeated until we get it, just as a student learning math may need repetition. But them once that life lesson is learned, we can move on. So I can see it applying is some sort of temporal way.

Aum Namasivaya

[ZarryT]

Vannakkam: I would think of this in one sense only, and that is in the way the soul learns. Sometimes the lesson needs to be repeated until we get it, just as a student learning math may need repetition. But them once that life lesson is learned, we can move on. So I can see it applying is some sort of temporal way.

Aum Namasivaya

What if a particular soul existed which simply never learns its lesson, and thus is stuck in the same place forever?

[Aum namah Śivāya]

What if a particular soul existed which simply never learns its lesson, and thus is stuck in the same place forever?

Namaste,

If you touch a hot stove enough, you'll eventually learn that it is unwise to do so.

The more you reject a lesson, it generally becomes more intense the next time around until you have to learn it.

OM

[Eastern Mind]

What if a particular soul existed which simply never learns its lesson, and thus is stuck in the same place forever?

Vannakkam: It's a hypothetical only, and I personally find little use in discussing such things. Sorry. But if you want to imagine that Groundhog Day is real, that's up to you.

Aum Namasivaya

[wundermonk]

What if a particular soul existed which simply never learns its lesson, and thus is stuck in the same place forever?

Per Samkhyan metaphysics, the action in this world is via the interaction of Sattva, Rajas and Tamas - which are together called Prakriti.

It is only during Pralaya [dissolution] that there is complete stillness in these entities. In states other than Pralaya, the attribute of these three gunas [qualities] is to constantly interact with each other. Thus, there is always action and motion in states other than Pralaya.

Given this metaphysical foundation, a soul will never be stuck - for the Karma of the soul accumulates/withers away due to the very identification/discrimination of the self from the non-self [Prakriti]. As sattva, rajas and tamas constantly interact with one another, and the self's role is one of manifestation, the self is ALWAYS cognizant of the action in the gunas - either via misidentification or discrimination. Thus, the Karma of a soul is never "stuck".

[ZarryT]

Vannakkam: It's a hypothetical only, and I personally find little use in discussing such things. Sorry. But if you want to imagine that Groundhog Day is real, that's up to you.

Aum Namasivaya

Hahah, Groundhog day is a pretty similar scenario i guess, except that takes place on one repeating day, and the subject is aware of it; with the eternal return, the subject forgets, and it is a whole lifetime which repeats.

[Kismet]

No offense, but why the pessimism?

Or perhaps its not pessimism... if the story on repeat is a lovely one anyway... Still, even the best story gets tiresome (this is from someone who watched Jurassic Park over a hundred times as a kid).

..And yes, the story wouldnt be tiresome from the POV of the "recuree" but there's still something, third-personally perhaps, disagreeable about the whole situation...

[brahman]

Is it plausible that someone's karma could be proportioned such that the only life they can live once they die is the same life again and so each and every time they die for all eternity they are reborn as themselves at the same time and date to the same parents?

Dear ZarryT,

“One who has understood this truth beyond doubt – he is not born again; nor does he die.”

Thus Katha Upanishad (कठ उपनिषद्)

Read full especially the chapters I & II.

Love

[ZarryT]

No offense, but why the pessimism?

Or perhaps its not pessimism... if the story on repeat is a lovely one anyway... Still, even the best story gets tiresome (this is from someone who watched Jurassic Park over a hundred times as a kid).

..And yes, the story wouldnt be tiresome from the POV of the "recuree" but there's still something, third-personally perhaps, disagreeable about the whole situation...

Let's assume that the story is perfectly balanced in terms of its drama: just enough love, hate, friendship, betrayal, joy, tragedy, despair etc.

As for the story getting tiresome, if at the birth the recuree doesn't remember that they have done it all before, then it would be the same as watching a new story - seeing jurassic park for the first time, every time you watch it.

[ZarryT]

Dear ZarryT,

“One who has understood this truth beyond doubt – he is not born again; nor does he die.”

Thus Katha Upanishad (कठ उपनिषद्)

Read full especially the chapters I & II.

Love

These chapters don't really deal with this question that much, but:

"“This syllable (OM) is the (lower aspect of) Brahman; this is the highest aspects of Brahman as well. If one understands this, he gets all his desires fulfilled. Whatever he desires for becomes his immediately.”
"


I would posit a reading of this whereby the immediate fulfillment of desire isn't something attained or acquired through understanding om, but rather understanding of om makes it most obvious to them that their desires have always been fulfilled, immediately; that this is the case for everyone, but those who do not understand om will simply not realise. (This would entail that when we suffer, it is merely because we want to suffer).

Now, as for the eternal return, this would imply that it is possible - should that soul's desire be to repeat this one life once more and evermore, then so it would be the case.


Also, to look at the full quote that you truncated:

“One who has understood this truth beyond doubt – he is not born again; nor does he die. This Atma is not given birth to or produced by something. Nothing else is produced from this Atma also. This (the Atma) is birth less, ever existent and immortal. It precedes everything else and it is not destroyed even when the physical body (where it resides) is destroyed.”


This seems to describe an Atma in the eternal return; if it is an eternal atman "precedes everything else" and "is not given birth to or produced by something", then there is no "first time round" - there is no birth for it as such.


Is this why you posted the reference? Or did you have something else in mind?


(both above quotes are from Katha II)