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Thread: Question

  1. #21
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    Re: Question

    Quote Originally Posted by TouchedbytheLord View Post
    Namaste.

    Which is higher on the hierarchy: Hinduism or yoga? Is Hinduism within yoga or is yoga within Hinduism? Does yoga take precedence over Hinduism, or is it the other way around? Is Hinduism within puja or is puja within Hinduism? Is Hinduism within bhakti or is bhakti within Hinduism? Or are all of those inextricably linked?
    I am not talking about hierarchy. Yoga is an orthodox Hindu system of religious practice, based on Sankhya metaphysics with its foundation in Vedic literature and shares the same goal with all other systems of Hindu philosophy, excluding early mimamsa. Hinduism is the very fabric of yoga.

    To me, he takes great pains to distance "western" and "fitness" yoga" from what it is, "union", and its roots in Hinduism.The world is not black and white, my friend.
    He also goes to great pain to separate religion from yoga to show that yoga is not distinctively Hindu and that yoga can be a universal practice that goes together with all religions.

    Like anything else, one has to look beyond the surface, beyond face value and beyond the words. Give some credit to the intelligence of the people that would read that site. Those are some things to consider before dismissing something out of hand.
    I am looking beyond the surface, I am familiar with this website and with what various teachers in this lineage of Swami Rama have written and said. Those who do not look beyond the surface cannot see this hidden agenda and only see him using words like "Sanatana Dharma" and phrases like "spiritual yoga instead of physical yoga." This is only done to make oneself look superior to others.

    This anti-Hindu snobbery was only the second part of my warning against this website. The first part of my warning, which should play a greater role in avoiding these writings, was the misconduct of the postmortem convicted felon and the guru of this webmaster, Swami Rama. Nevertheless, if you want to learn about religion transcending "spiritual" yoga from the chela of Jack the Ripper's incarnation as a Himalayan master, be my guest.
    Last edited by Sahasranama; 31 May 2012 at 08:32 AM.

  2. #22
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    Re: Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Sahasranama View Post
    He also goes to great pain to separate religion from yoga to show that yoga is not distinctively Hindu and that yoga can be a universal practice that goes together with all religions.
    So why can't it if one believes that Sanātana Dharma is the true way, despite the religion one follows to reach God, and at the heart of it all humans are part of Sanātana Dharma, even if they don't know it?

    I'll tell you why it can't... when someone does not believe that any other genuine, faithful and devoted way to reach God is valid. There's the prejudice and bias that so many non-Indians and non-Hindus are accused of. Ironic, isn't it?

    But now we're veering off into conversations about "paths" and that U-bomb word that have plagued this site too many times. With this I'll bow out and say we can and must agree to disagree.
    śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ

  3. #23
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    Re: Question

    Quote Originally Posted by TouchedbytheLord View Post
    So why can't it if one believes that Sanātana Dharma is the true way, despite the religion one follows to reach God, and at the heart of it all humans are part of Sanātana Dharma, even if they don't know it? I'll tell you why it can't... when someone does not believe that any other genuine, faithful and devoted way to reach God is valid. There's the prejudice and bias that so many non-Indians and non-Hindus are accused of. Ironic, isn't it?
    This is a contradiction, you cannot belief that Sanatana Dharma, a.k.a. Hinduism is the true way, despite being a follower of another religion. Unless someone is mentally ill or is being threatened with violence to follow another religion, it's illogical to believe in the truth of Sanatana Dharma while still worshiping the J-man or any other non-Hindu god for that matter. As a Hindu believing that Christianity is not true is by no means similar to condoning the killing of heathens and condemning them to eternal hellfire, so there is no irony here.

  4. #24
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    Re: Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Sahasranama View Post
    This is a contradiction, you cannot belief that Sanatana Dharma, a.k.a. Hinduism is the true way, despite being a follower of another religion. Unless someone is mentally ill or is being threatened with violence to follow another religion, it's illogical to believe in the truth of Sanatana Dharma while still worshiping the J-man or any other non-Hindu god for that matter. As a Hindu believing that Christianity is an invalid path that does not lead to moksha is by no means similar to condoning the killing of heathens and condemning them to eternal hellfire, so there is no irony here.
    There is no contradiction. Think deeply on it.
    śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ

  5. #25
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    Re: Question

    The contradiction is very simple, Christianity is incongruent with yoga and Sanatana Dharma. You cannot be a Christian and a practitioner of Sanatana Dharma or yoga at the same time.
    Last edited by Sahasranama; 31 May 2012 at 09:25 AM.

  6. #26
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    Re: Question

    O.k. great, i'll make a few comments about each of your answers and then give a general summary of what meditation is to me; take it with a pinch of salt, since my views might be considered a little controversial.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vitani View Post
    Namaste ZarryT, I'm sorry. I will answer your questions directly.

    1. Why are you meditating?

    I am meditating to become closer to God; though, I am sure there are other reasons for meditation, but that is why I do it right now.
    A further question: what do you think it means to become closer to God? Perhaps it might be worth considering that if emptying your mind and staying focused isn't the chief goal of your meditation, then it might also be the case that it's o.k. for your mind to wander!

    And what do you mean by God?


    2. What are you meditating on / about?

    I meditate on Shiva, mostly as Linga, and I usually recite "Namah Shivaya" on Malas.
    when you say you meditate on Shiva, what do you mean precisely? What sort of thoughts are you bringing to mind, what details? What is it exactly that you do other than mantra recital?

    3. What do you think 'meditation' is? / What exactly are you doing when you meditate?

    Hmm. Well, I think meditation can be controlling the mind, the breath, and may even be a form of prayer. As I said, when I meditate, I chant the mantra above on mala beads

    Pranams

    Vitani
    There is a great distinction between control and observance. For me, meditation is all about one thing: the way in which you actively direct your attention. Meditation is about paying attention to particular things.

    If you want closeness to god, then direct your attention towards every element of your sensory experience; pay attention to every detail in your vision, every sound, every feeling of every inch of your body. Starting this way instantly calms the mind, since it's something we so rarely do; it's a new activity, and new activities are compelling and absorb our attention.

    Start by focusing on your vision. Then add sounds; start seeing what you can hear in each moment. Notice the transience; how everything constantly changes, even those things which appear static / still. You'll see that the very manner in which you observe / notice / pay attention changes; the lines and corners of objects shift and move whilst staying the same...

    "the more it changes, the more it stays the same".


    As for breathing; perhaps try to pay attention to your breathing, rather than trying to control it. Watch and feel your breathing, but don't concern yourself with trying to "breathe correctly", as this is silly - you breathe! you're a human! we do this regardless!

    Watch how sometimes, you are actively breathing... you are doing the breathing - watch also how sometimes you are not doing it, it happens on its own. Watch this contradiction, contemplate it's possibility, try and spot the distinction.

    The biggest thing is don't try to do it "correctly" - just absorb. Meditate for the sake of meditation.

    I have lots more to say but i'm trying to keep it relevant, ask more questions
    If you found out that you were god, dreaming a life for yourself, and that you were identical with the external world, you would ask yourself: "So, what would I have happen to me in my life? what would be my perfect drama?":cool1:


    You died, and death was complete freedom from suffering - bliss. But it very quickly got lonely and repetitive in bliss, so you decided to be born once more. You've been doing this forever.

  7. #27

    Re: Question

    Hi All,


    This is a very nice problem. Let us look at it carefully.
    suppose I am seated in meditation and I have told my mind "Say OM Namah Sivaya" ... and it however has its own agenda ... suppose it says , I'll instead bring out thoughts about Siva, a friend who lives in chennai ! what is the basic problem ?

    Please see friend. We need to tackle at the root of the issue, not the offshoots. And I would request all sincere seekers to give me a little time as I go about building this up. Many people do not like a "big post" --- but I am sure that a sincere seeker would not be mind reading a big article on this, esp if it is useful.

    So here is the point... Why is the mind doing something else, when its told to simply chant ? Friends, mind is an instrument. Like a microphone or perhaps a neural machine. And it has ingrained neural network ... lets explore how this works a little. Suppose I see a cat. what happens is, the light from the object falls on my retina, and a few neurons there "Fire". The neurons have a energy level, beyond which they fire. So these neurons got excited due to the light that fell on it and they fire.

    And between two neurons there can be three kinds of relationships:
    a) no connection.
    b) A positive connection: meaning the synaptic junctions and weights are so designed that whenever one of them fires, the other also has a tendency to fire.
    c) A negative connection: whenever one of them fires, it inhibits the other from firing.

    This is how our whole neural system is designed. So when I see a cat, it fires a few neurons in retina and then they in turn fire a few other neurons and inhibit a few others ... which inturn do the same and this goes on ... and then the whole network "Converges" . Converges to what ? The Form Cat, Recognition about the Cat, your feelings, ideas etc about the cat and so on...

    So all these are "recollected" and based on our "mood", the mind has a tendency to go in a certain direction.
    its the mood that directs the next thoughts/ neural movements.
    the mood is also a "Background" set of neurons that remain "Fired". They are the "background" set of neurons that are active and which trigger or inhibit certain other neurons from firing.

    Do we see this please ? so ... when i have just seen a ghost movie and returned ... I am in a "Fear" mood ... if i see a shadow now ... it triggers lot of fear.

    Thats why someone reads Swami Vivekananda and is inspired. Now this person is in that mood ... certain neuron are already active... and if he faces with a situation thats challenging, he would Face it Fearlessly.

    unfortunately, he will lose this "inspiration" after some time.

    When I sit down for chanting ... if we can remove all the background mood ... other than that of total surrender ... or total vairagya ... the mind wont move. coz mind is just an instrument. it functions based on our attitude.

    so japa is an act ... the background attitude is what decides how we go about it.
    if the attitude we have is incorrect ... if the overall mood is not properly prepared ... mind keeps jumping to other things.

    There is really nothing that can create the mood or background attitude towards life better than Vedanta Sravanam.

    anyways, I stop at this point ... would expect people to read and then come up with questions on it before proceeding any further.

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