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Thread: 40 Day Fast...why so?

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    40 Day Fast...why so?

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~

    Namaste,
    I have pondered this question for some time now * years* and wondered if you have an opinion on this, and care to ponder with me!

    Jesus fasted for 40 days/nights, why so? why not 27 ( Moon calendar), 30 days ( sun calendar). What is significant about 40? I can guarantee this number is not a random selection.

    Here's some of my ideas/research - again nothing conclusive, but thought to share this with you. Each are mutually exclusive:
    1. According to the Shatapatha Brahmana, the number of syllables in the Rigveda is 432,000, equalling the number of muhurtas (1 day = 30 muhurtas) in forty years. Could jesus be pointing to the Veda?


    2. One revolution of the earth = 360 degrees ( a symbol for fullness) divided by 40 days = 9. Nine is so significant ( for 9 Grahas) and 3 squred or the triplicity of life ( satwa, rago, and tamas), and Father , Son, Holy Spirit, Sat Chit Aananda, past present and future, etc etc. IS Jesus pointing to triplicity and his role there?

    3. Each passing solar year can very effectively be measured and metered out in correspondence with a number of 356 days but only as long as 40th days are not counted (or leaped) among the calendar days.

    The Sun Or Atman is at the center of this calc... and the 40th day is leaped, or 'transcended' - as we find Him, in the Atma. Is Jesus pointing to the Absolute?

    4. This is an idea from a repected Jyotish Guru/ friend: Did you ever stop to think that forty years is one-third of the Paramayus ( that is life span) of Vimsottari dasa, or in other words one-third of the full possible lifespan in Kali-yuga of 120 years. When you think of 120 years as three repetitions of forty years each, then the cycles of Saturn come to mind. Perhaps in the mind of Jesus, forty days - like forty years - represents a full period of cyclic change and transformation. It is also a fact that the division of the full 120 year Paramayus of Vimsottari dasa into thirds, is called Tribhagi dasa, and is very useful in the matter of timing death.


    If you can advance this thinking or have ideas of your own, perhaps we can draw some conclusions or teachings.

    pranams,
    ramante yogino-nante brahmaanande chidaatmani
    The one in whose memory yogis revel in the bliss of brahman - Padma-purana

    Last edited by yajvan; 20 January 2007 at 09:37 AM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  2. #2
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    Re: 40 Day Fast...why so?

    Namaste Yajvan,

    Jesus Fasting, why for 40 days

    This is a sample of what Christian sources say about the significance of the 40 days of Jesus' fast in the desert.

    Jesus' fasting in the desert for 40 days before his public ministry was an exceptional thing done at an exceptional time. It corresponded as a type of Moses' fasting 40 days on Mt. Sinai before receiving the Law (Ex. 34:27f). As the new Lawgiver, Jesus fasted before giving the new law of the kingdom (Matt. 4:23). Jesus taught fasting was not done to impress or prompt anyone else, but it was a matter of personal resolve and individual liberty before God (Matt. 6:16-18).
    http://iwhome.com/spiritualquest/articles/hpblfast.htm
    In the English language, the special season before Easter is called “Lent.” The word comes from the “lengthening” of daylight hours as we progress from the darkness of winter to the new light of spring. But other languages, such as Spanish, have a name for this season that is derived from the word for forty. It is the season of the forty days.

    OK, we do penance for forty days because Jesus fasted forty days in the wilderness. But did you ever wonder why he was out there for forty days rather than seven or ten or fifty?

    Think back to the Old Testament. Noah and company were in the Ark for 40 days. Moses was up on Sinai receiving the 10 commandments for 40 days. The Israelites wandered around the desert for 40 years.

    So why all these forties? Probably because it is forty weeks that a woman carries her developing baby before a new life can come forth from the womb.

    All these “forties” are a necessary and not-so-comfortable prelude for something new. In Noah’s case, it’s the rebirth of a sinful world that had been cleansed by raging flood waters. In Moses’ case, it was the birth of the people of the covenant. For the nomadic Israelites, it was the start of a new, settled existence in the Promised land.

    And Jesus? What did his forty days mean? The birth of a new Israel liberated from sin, reconciled to God, and governed by the law of the Spirit rather than a law chiseled in stone.
    http://www.crossroadsinitiative.com/...s_of_Lent.html
    When Christian scriptures themselves explain no significance for the number 40 or 27 or 30 or other holy numbers, it is needless to extrapolate it with Hindu concepts, when the historicity of Jesus itself is a question mark. We can do all such research if Orthodox Christianity admits that it is derived from the earlier pagan traditions which were in turn derived from Sanatana Dharma that was prevalent the world over in the ancient times.

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    Re: 40 Day Fast...why so?

    Just because these things work out in some mathmatical way means nothing. Others have did some interesting math tricks with the number of steps in the egyptian pyramids and then there is the idea that the mayan pyramid's out buildings are representations of the planets in this solar system.

    No one really knows why it was forty days and probably no one cares. It is the sort of thing you had to be present for to know the answer.

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    Re: 40 Day Fast...why so?

    Is 40 a Holy Number in Christianity?

    Biblical numbers are no more chronologically reliable than Biblical story telling or geography. The Biblical use of numbers is an excellent illustration of the non-scientific and at the same time highly sophisticated literary technique of the Bible. The Bible states that it took the Israelites 40 years to reach the Land of Canaan. But this period of time was chosen in order to conform to the symbolism of numbers used in Scripture. The numbers 7, 10, 12 and 40 recur again and again in the Bible and particularly in the Pentateuch. They are not “holy” numbers; that is, none of them holds magical powers, as is often suggested. Indeed, that would transgress the uncompromising idea of Biblical monotheism for which magic is anathema. Yet each of these numbers suggests a deeper meaning, just as colors are meaningful in modern civilization, where, for example, in some cultures black is a sign of mourning; red, a sign of danger; and green, a sign of hope.
    ...

    Forty stands for purity effected through isolation and gradual growth. (The isolation implied by the number 40 has survived etymologically in the word “quarantine.”) The Flood took 40 days to sweep away evil from the face of the earth. Moses spent 40 lonely days and nights on Mount Sinai before he returned with the two Tablets of the Law. And the Israelites had to remain in the wilderness 40 years before they were mature enough to enter Canaan. The suggestion frequently put forward that 40 years stands for one generation is certainly mistaken. If today a generation lasts 25 years, how much shorter it must have been in antiquity when people married at a much earlier age.
    ...

    What is the true significance of the Forty Years? These were the honeymoon years—sit venia verbo—when God and Israel as a couple spent time getting used to each other, undisturbed by outsiders. For this reason, and despite the fact that the region was anything but void, the Torah makes no mention of any encounters between the 12 tribes and other settlers or even nomads, with the exception of Moses’s well-meaning father-in-law (Exodus 18), on the one hand, and the embodiment of evil, Amalek (Exodus 17), on the other. This honeymoon concept is made quite explicit in Jeremiah 2:2: “I remember the unfailing devotion of your youth, the love of your bridal days, when you followed me in the wilderness.”

    http://members.bib-arch.org/nph-prox...d6&UserID=3d0&

    Book X ---On Numbers

    Translated by Karen Rae Keck, 1996

    In truth, we interpret, however briefly, these numbers of perfect names. The mystical account of these examples makes them more honored among the blessed.
    ...
    XL. [This number refers] to the promise of Lent; in the gospel: and he was led by the spirit in the desert for forty days. [Luke 4:1-2]
    http://www.geocities.com/karenrae.geo/lyons10.html

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    Re: 40 Day Fast...why so?

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by willie View Post
    Just because these things work out in some .

    No one really knows why it was forty days and probably no one cares. It is the sort of thing you had to be present for to know the answer.
    Dear willie,
    In my humble estimation of this, I care. If you do not, that is your choice and can post other ideas, and I respect your interest level.

    There is wisdom to be extracted. I like the Christian explaination of 40 years, 40 days of Moses. I remain intersted in things spiritual... Jesus' priciples are time-tested and speaks wisely. Nothing he did was done w/o mindful thought of its signifcance.

    So what's my point? For anyone to say ' I and my Father are One' , among other key pointers, indicates a realized soul which deserves my respect, and hence , perhaps I can learn from this realized being. That said, truth is truth no matter where you look. I look to see if there is a 'truth' behind the 40 days.

    Now, what Saidevo brings to the post is of interest... And Saidevo, thank you. So, here's my thought: Christianity is relively new ( ~2000 years).
    So, what made Moses think that 40 days is significant ? For purification? and for Jesus to subscribe to it? This is the 'truth' I am pondering. What you post is thought provoking and assist (me) in another way of looking at the info ...As I read it again, this is new information I did not have and assists me in rounding out a POV - thank your for taking the time to do the research.

    pranams,
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: 40 Day Fast...why so?

    Namaste,

    Perhaps our brother Arjuna, on his return, will elaborate further on gematria and cabala. Meanwhile, these references may provide further insight.



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gematria

    http://www.jewishpath.org/gematriaopenhouse.html:

    The gematria (numerical value) of the Hebrew word for milk, chalav, is 40. We eat dairy foods on Shavuot to commemorate the 40 days that Moses spent on Mount Sinai receiving instruction in the entire Torah. (Moses spent an additional 40 days on Sinai, praying for forgiveness following the Golden Calf, and then a third set of 40 days before returning with a new set of stone tablets.)

    The numerical value of chalav, 40, has further significance in that there were 40 generations from Moses who recorded the Written Torah, till the generation of Ravina and Rav Ashi who wrote the final version of the Oral Torah, the Talmud.
    Further, the Talmud begins with the letter mem - gematria 40 - and ends with mem as well. http://www.aish.com/shavuotfeatures/shavuotfeaturesdefault/Why_Dairy_on_Shavuot$.asp

    http://www.odeion.org/gematria/gemchap-iv.html







    ZN
    yaireva patanaM dravyaiH siddhistaireva choditA .
    shrI kauladarshane chApi bhairaveNa mahAtmanA .

    It is revealed in the sacred doctrine of Kula and by the great Bhairava, that the perfection is achieved by that very means by which fall occurs.

  7. #7

    Re: 40 Day Fast...why so?

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan
    Jesus' priciples are time-tested and speaks wisely. Nothing he did was done w/o mindful thought of its signifcance.

    So what's my point? For anyone to say ' I and my Father are One' , among other key pointers, indicates a realized soul which deserves my respect, and hence , perhaps I can learn from this realized being. That said, truth is truth no matter where you look.


    Dear Yajvan:


    When so much Jesus bashing going on, when every time you utter the name Jesus it is somehow implied as proselytizing of some kind, it is truly refreshing to know there are sincere seekers to whom truth matters. Such honest admissions are greatly appreciated when there is so much hostility at the mere mention of that divine name!

    Thank you, sincerely. Continue your quest for the truth with an open mind!



    Blessings,

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    Re: 40 Day Fast...why so?

    Quote Originally Posted by nirotu View Post
    when there is so much hostility at the mere mention of that divine name![/FONT]

    Blessings,
    namaste,

    Ever gave a serious thought to the following questions: 'why there is the so called hostility and who is responsible for creating it'?

    All one has to do is visit some christian forums where anything non-christian is due to the 'devil' himself. While Yajvan's post shows the tolerance of sanatana dharma one only needs to visit the non christian sections of some christian forums to see what today's christians are doing to create this hostility.

    Re: jesus bashing, not sure what you are talking about. This thread is a great example that hindus have respect for jesus just like we do for all other realised souls. Quite the opposite happens on many christian and muslim forums where just one post about lord krishna or shiva could get you banned forever from the forum.

    Enough said...
    Last edited by satay; 22 January 2007 at 12:16 AM.
    satay

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    Re: 40 Day Fast...why so?

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by satay View Post
    namaste,
    All one has to do is visit some christian forums where anything non-christian is due to the 'devil' himself. While Yajvan's post shows the tolerance of sanatana dharma one only needs to visit the non christian sections of some christian forums to see what today's christians are doing to create this hostility.

    Re: jesus bashing, not sure what you are talking about. This thread is a great example that hindus have respect for jesus just like we do for all other realised souls. Quite the opposite happens on many christian and muslim forums where just one post about lord krishna or shiva could get you banned forever from the forum.
    Namaste Satay (et.al)
    Yes, we practicing sanatana dharma may perhaps have a higher tolerance... why so? We look to the individual saint (Jesus) and recognize his lineage as a realized being. Yet, when we look to the christian religion practitioners we see , ( not all ) this less tolerant behavior. Why so? For them (again, not all) being a 'son of God' seems to be a mutually exclusive event. They have missed Jesus' instruction ' the kingdom of heaven is within you' . Not just me, Jesus, you , all you. So, they must conclude Jesus' special condition as one of a kind. How could a Loving God and a Loving Son only want themselves to have this condition, this Fullness ( Bhuma) this is the ignorance of the ages. This is up-side-down. People in enlightenment want all beings to share the delight.

    re: Bashing - I think the comment was not HDF specific. as I visit other forums, there is a knee jerk response to Jesus' name that brings the ire of the members. I believe its not directed at Jesus, but of those that think Jesus is the only way to fullness/enlightement. Even when I talk to other christians, one group is suspect of the other group...my christianity is superior to yours. My god is better, because I believe in Him in my way, and your way is updside down. That is the angst I sense.

    For me, we can learn from this man (Jesus)... his parables are just as rich as the Upanishads if you can comprehend his message. This issue comes from small-small thinking ( as my teacher has told me) when people hear 'I and my Father are One' , they then submit the notion that Jesus is the Lord of the Universe, or in our terms Ishvara. Now, to the enlightend, one would say yes, Jesus is Brahman, yet so too are you.

    So, on this 4-um ( 4 AUM - I just made that up!) we know the truth. We know the reality. And we need to undersand where some people are in their thinking. Just as a child thinks that their mother and father are the best in the world, the only parents, we know from our knowlege, it allows us to think wider then this. We know that this Fullness surrounds all of us, and we are an expression of that Tad Ekam, That ONE.

    Remember one thing - for those that look at us and say you have 100's of gods, we think and say to ourselves, yes - its how Brahman expresses Himself in thousands of ways , not just one way, and we rejoice in His diversity. And you allow cows to roam freely in the streets - we say yes, isn't it wonderful! - that His creation and the symbol of a bountiful world is practiced? that we can share this earth with other beings that do not have to look exactly like us. And monkeys are seen as divine - and we say isn't that something!... That we recognize Hanumanji, a devotee of Sri Ram , that even they understand His station in this Universe.
    Any you pray to murti's - yes! He is found in a clump of rock, a piece of gold, that this Consciousness is ubiquitious! Rejoice in the fact that we are an expression of HIM, and we are able to see this.

    For us, on this forum, it is the wise council to know the truth and to seek it out. Our only enemy to crush is ignorance. I am still in the crushing mode and I look to those wiser on this forum to assist with the swing of the hammer.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: 40 Day Fast...why so?

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    Hari Om
    ~~~~~


    For us, on this forum, it is the wise council to know the truth and to seek it out. Our only enemy to crush is ignorance. I am still in the crushing mode and I look to those wiser on this forum to assist with the swing of the hammer.
    Jai ganesh

    Pranam
    I help you swing the hammer so that the transcendental sound vibration reverberate in all three worlds, alas if only I had the strength

    Jai Shree Krishna

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