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Thread: Yoga and Drugs (Chemicals)

  1. #1

    Yoga and Drugs (Chemicals)

    Hello everyone, I was hoping some of you might share your experiences/opinions regarding drug use as it actually facilitates the practice of any type of yoga.

    For example (an example many of you will probably agree on) I find that drinking coffee helps to increase my ability to concentrate during meditation. Every time I've experienced Dhyana - the second stage of meditation as defined by Patanjali - I had previously been drinking coffee. Additionally, though I don't know what chemicals it has in it, when I eat enough celery I find my third eye is stimulated, as well as muladhara chakra.
    I've never smoked weed while in meditation, but I know that is common both here in America and in India; can any of you who have tell me if indica or sativa is better?

    Please share your experiences.
    ~Har Har Mahadev~


    Where there is Truth there is Victory

    "The mind is a dangerous weapon, even to the possessor, if he knows not discreetly how to use it." - Michel de Montaigne

    ~Om Namah Shivay~

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    Re: Yoga and Drugs (Chemicals)

    Vannakkam: I do drink coffee, as a matter of an old habit, but I'm really not sure if it has any effect. As for other chemical drugs, I would say 98% of all Hindu teachers would advise against it, as there is no permanent benefit. The drugs of Hinduism are the ones inside us produced by endocrine glands.

    Welcome to these forums, and I'm sure most will answer similarly to me, and hopefully you're satisfied with that. Basically Drugs and Hinduism are a poor mix.

    Aum Namasivaya

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    Re: Yoga and Drugs (Chemicals)

    Namaste

    Hello everyone, I was hoping some of you might share your experiences/opinions regarding drug use as it actually facilitates the practice of any type of yoga.
    Patanjali refers to the use of drugs relatively neutrally as one of the possible means of gaining siddhi. Siddhi is usually interpreted as particular 'magical powers,' which are real enough, but its real meaning is attainment of a particular perfection through a state of consciousness which absorbed into itself a shakti, or collections of shaktis.

    In other words, patanjali is saying that drugs can bring one into such contact with these shaktis and may result, probably depending on how one works with them, in the attainment of siddhi.

    That said, it's not something to rely on.

    As far as cannabis/ganja (in my opinion, calling it 'weed' belittles this wonderful drug) sativa is generally better for an increase in mental powers and concentration, if you access savikalpa samadhi through it the effects should go on for much longer than merely being "stoned" - hours at least.

    It's important not to get scattered though, concentrate your thoughts on divinity and... enjoy the ride.

    I would agree, by the way, that the most important chemicals are those produced within the body, though not just by the endocrine system. Endocannabinoids for example, are extremely important. So is cerebrospinal fluid. So is DMT produced by the pineal gland and other tryptamines. So is...

    This, in my opinion, is the core of the sanatana dharma, demonstrated well in the Vedas. This is soma, this is the pravargya milk of the taittirya aranyaka, this is khecari. The internal yajnas and homas to the fire framed by sun and moon, the generation of the rasas and purification through the manthana of bhairava into amrta.

    Nonetheless, external sources (and more exoteric, literal interpretations of vedic rites) should not be rejected out of hand.

    Hope this is helpful to you

    Namaste

  4. #4

    Re: Yoga and Drugs (Chemicals)

    हरिः ओम्


    Namaste Giza,


    Some-things in life are best not rushed, firstly, you should be clear as to what exactly you are hoping to achieve and why.
    The happening of realisation or awakening, is meaningless if the soul is not ready for it; do you think the soul will be
    capable of understanding
    or even recognising samAdhi before it is ready?

    I see only the rapid road to a dependence, which is not going to lead to release.

    A key to realisation is independence, not dependence.

    I see no benefit with drugs? This may lead to mokSa in rare incidences but I wouldn't recommend it as a path, I will
    speculate that those who are helped by them will have found their way with out anyway but for most the effect is the
    inverse and they become trapped by the drug with no gains at all.

    With all that said, there are some interesting papers in which LSD is said to be a dramatic "cure" for alcoholism
    when administered in the presence of a Counsellor or perhaps one should say Guru. But this is not yoga.


    The art is in the timing and the practise, to find ones posture with out props or crutches.
    You will find much on these subjects here on HDF.


    praṇāma

    mana


    ॐ नमः शिवाय
    Aum Namaḥ Śivāya
    8i8

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    Re: Yoga and Drugs (Chemicals)

    Namast,

    Giza, I have no experience with drugs; in fact, I gave up alcohol and cigarettes in becoming Hindu, and am currently tapering back caffeine, too. Regarding the other two:

    Have you ever been diagnosed with (or suspected to have) ADD or ADHD? I ask because for folks with that condition, caffeine often serves as a self-medication because it produces a relaxing and expanding effect, instead of the stimulating, jittery effect it usually gives. Coffee would not be a meditation aid for most people, hence the suggestion.

    From my Ayurveda course, I read that celery "cleanses the mind and emotions and improves perception. It increases the element of ether, giving space for meditation." So if it agrees with your digestion and is a vegetable you enjoy, it seems like an excellent choice!

    Indraneela
    ===
    Oṁ Indrāya Namaḥ.
    Oṁ Namaḥ Śivāya.

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    Re: Yoga and Drugs (Chemicals)

    Namaste Mr. Giza,

    Durga rides on top Of a tiger. While their are some very, very advanced yogis in the Sundabarns who will ride on a wild Tiger, I would not recommend you doing so since you are not even in the same Mount Meru of Mind they are traveling on and planting wondrous spiritual herbs upon. Nor would I recommend any hallucinogenic drug or mercury based drug such as marijuana or hasheesh for you, the right question isn't being presented to even go there for you which would only open yourself to lower and even demonic forces which are actually very real and looking for rather susceptible bodily souls who are subject to very serious mistakes even if well intentioned.

    With all due respect, believe me I have known a few, who started off with good intention and interest in yoga, and they thought they could build a stairway to heaven down the path of drugs, two are dead and one is in prison.

    Do not let me be too rash regarding my witness to such mistakes, and my sense is you will not go their other than a cup of coffee for which there is little harm there (but try tea instead, especially Ceylon tea), but if I were to suggest to you the most powerful shakti or bliss or light or moment for you, let me be so humble to ask you to try singing some bhajans in the company of devotees of Deva and of Yoga.

    A bhajan will make more of an impact than any plant or powder or pill, to your body and to your mind and soul. Shiva drank the poison and it stained his throat blue, and there may be a great yogi of His who has smoked ganja.

    But are you a great yogi? You can find many false yogis who smoke ganja, but I haven't found a one Great Yogi who does yet.

    A very, very small amount of snake venom is good for high blood pressure. But the purpose of a very, very small amount of snake venom is for the heart, and while a better heart may be conductive to better yoga, snake venom is in this case a medicine and not a yoga discipline. Shiva did not drink a very, very small amount, it was a very strong and potent amount. But I wouldn't want to see you try.

    He is The Great Lord. Let us sing bhajans to him. You are invited!

    With only loving regard, no malicious intent,
    God bless you and all the best!

  7. #7

    Re: Yoga and Drugs (Chemicals)

    I can tell I'm going to like it here. All intelligent and thought provoking replies! It seems that many of you have tried to tailor your replies to suit me personally, for which I thank you. I hope you will consider it permissible then for me to use this as an excuse to introduce myself a little further. Indeed, as many of you have guessed, I'm not a great yogi. But neither am I a "druggie". I've never done anything harder than alcohol. I've never smoked ganja (apologies to Shuddhasattva for calling it weed), or done any other drug whatever (excepting some antihistamines for my allergies).

    So, for a little background information: I'm 21, and I've been consistently practicing meditation on my chakras since August 2009. Only a few months ago, I got out of jail. I spent a total of 6 years there, since I was 15. I was convicted of manslaughter and therefore charged as an adult. While there I got very deep into yogic meditation. Essentially my technique was to focus on the physical location of any given chakra and do breathing techniques, especially kumbhaka or retaining the breath. I would do this in Shavasana (lying flat on my back) as I found it was more conducive to eliminating physical tension; I did not have the problem many have experienced of losing concentration and falling asleep. As my practice progressed I found that I intermittently exhibited some interesting, if useless, "talents". Seeing auras, hearing peoples subvocalizations (a subvocalization is when a person "speaks" in their mind, as when reading a book or when they've got something "on the tip of their tongue"; as I understand it according to my experiance, this is not what people rightly call "clairaudiance" but rather is in fact telepathy and has more to do with ajna chakra than vishuddha) and maybe a few other things that I'm forgetting. All of which are cool, but not really that helpful to me or anyone else, especially uncontrolled. Where was I? Well, I've been out of jail for a few months now. My practice has slowed down, I don't have the time to try to concentrate for hours at a time anymore. I wish I did. I really liked my life in jail, at least the yoga part. I kept to myself and did my best to make it all one big "yoga part". I was denied parole twice on purpose - I presented myself poorly because I didn't want to leave. I thought I could raise my kundalini safely if I just had the time, intelligence, patience, skill, and perseverance. I changed my mind because my family was suffering to see me locked up, and I wanted to look for a guru.

    On that note, I've been in contact with the Kuai Aadheenam, but they won't accept me because I will be 25 by the time I can legally leave the state, which is too old by their policy. I've only found out today, sadly. I'm also interested in the Bihar Yoga School, but I have no idea about how they run their organization, only that the books Swami Satyananda Saraswati has written are brilliant.

    If anyone is interested this is a link to a short thread I started on Yoga Forums.com regarding a personal experience I had hurting myself through meditation, it may clarify anything I've left out here (again I'm Giza): http://www.yogaforums.com/forums/f20...pain-9167.html

    I have to say one more time, thank you all for the intelligent answers!
    I'm happy to answer any questions.
    ~Har Har Mahadev~


    Where there is Truth there is Victory

    "The mind is a dangerous weapon, even to the possessor, if he knows not discreetly how to use it." - Michel de Montaigne

    ~Om Namah Shivay~

  8. #8

    Re: Yoga and Drugs (Chemicals)

    Quote Originally Posted by Indraneela View Post
    Have you ever been diagnosed with (or suspected to have) ADD or ADHD? I ask because for folks with that condition, caffeine often serves as a self-medication because it produces a relaxing and expanding effect, instead of the stimulating, jittery effect it usually gives. Coffee would not be a meditation aid for most people, hence the suggestion.
    No, in fact, quite the opposite. I'm introverted, and I would describe my concentration as very good. But I agree with you that most people find that the stimulating, jittery effect that coffee gives them is not conducive to meditation. It has that effect on me, in fact. But, if you wait long enough, that effect wears off. I've found that once I have just the right amount of caffeine in my system - not too much, not too little - my ability to concentrate effectively will multiply exponentially, even to the point where I can hurt myself. (see the link in my last post)
    ~Har Har Mahadev~


    Where there is Truth there is Victory

    "The mind is a dangerous weapon, even to the possessor, if he knows not discreetly how to use it." - Michel de Montaigne

    ~Om Namah Shivay~

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    Re: Yoga and Drugs (Chemicals)

    Namaste,

    Giza I feel that it all depends on one's ability to focus. For example. Some people smoke Ganja and have difficulty concentrating. This is usually, because a lot of thoughts may arise. This is something that is interesting about Ganja is it magnifies what is going on in your inner world. Not everyone is able to focus. I feel if people use Ganja and if a storm of thoughts and emotions arise they can look into them, because that is the whole reason. It is sort of as if the Ganja is revealing your problems for you to look at. If you feel fully usually the thoughts quiet and you actually work through some attachments. Ganja has an affect of allowing you to also feel the inner vibrations of the body. This is good for the cells and the body in general. It also quiets the mind when you feel that energy swimming through you. I say if someone smokes Ganja they need to be disciplined in remaining in the Present moment. This is a challenge, but if one makes this intention firmly I feel they can achieve it.

    I use Caffeine, but I feel that I need to drink plenty of water as I drink caffeine to allow for hydration and for the caffeine to actually help you be more awake. I think if it becomes an addiction, perhaps it should be made aware by your attention.

    I rambled too much and its 6:38am. I think ill nap.

    Om Namah Shivaya

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    Re: Yoga and Drugs (Chemicals)

    Namaste

    I would just like to add that use of cannabis is what brought me back to Hindu dharma. I was raised Hindu, and in my adolescence when reason and logic became more strongly developed, the simple faith of my childhood was scrutinized, along with everything else I found unreasonable in the world, and found wanting. I drifted away into weak panentheism/agnosticism.

    Some years later, I had been legally prescribed cannabis for medical issues - which is why I started using it initially, though I found I also enjoyed the mental high very much. Thoughts would become much more vibrant, it was easier to 'think more deeply' "about life, the universe and everything," as well as recognize faults in my thinking, attitudes, behavior, etc., and make resolutions to change.

    It was a period of great personal growth for me.

    This, in of itself, would only have led into a good life marked by cycles of enjoyable, insightful in a limited fashion, if ultimately fruitless, mental speculations - though I hold this to be better than the common life devoid of philosophical/spiritual interest altogether.

    However, one day, after I had been smoking for awhile, having built up a tolerance, a very unexpected thing happened - an altered state so strong I lost control of my body and passed out.

    This occurred after smoking a relatively small amount of very potent cannabis. I had never passed out before, even after smoking large amounts of equally potent cannabis.

    This happened because the effect this ganja had was radically different than effects I had experienced before - heightened mental powers, in the main, altered perception of the body - as Spiritualseeker put it, a feeling of subtle vibrations., etc.

    What I experienced instead was my first mystical experience and still to this day one of the strongest I have experienced - it is not a usual effect of cannabis.

    Having read up on this topic from a neuroscience/neuropsychology perspective as well, trying to understand what had occurred, and I believe what happened is that the phytocannabinoids, having crossed the blood-brain barrier, interacted with the CB1 receptors there - the cannabinoid receptors in the brain & nervous system govern the secretion and uptake of many other neurotransmitters and hormones. I believe what happened in this case, is that due to some matrix of factors, the cannabinoid system activated a large increase in the production of DMT by the pineal gland, and its uptake by the 5-HT receptors, along with other chemicals which modulate the effects thereof.

    What resulted was something very similar to a 'near death experience' described in clinical literature often associated with research on the role of DMT.

    I had just inhaled the cannabis vapor, and stood up. The motion of standing up probably caused a change in the amount of available blood & oxygen, causing this peculiar priming of the pineal in relation to the cannabinoid system (whether stimualted by endocannabinoids or phytocannabinoids) in way that might otherwise be caused by breathing practices and proper attention to bandha and mudra.

    I was then rapidly overcome by the experience: I felt my consciousness and sense of personality implode inwards, and I was propelled into an internal tunnel down which I was 'speeding' - there was a sensation of great velocity.

    The surface of this "tunnel" appeared coated with what looked like giant gems: huge faceted structures of various colors, growing out from the tunnel wall which they composed rather like fractals.

    Each facet contained within it an experience from my life, and so while I was traveling down the tunnel, wherever I looked - and it seemed I could look many places simultaneously, where looking was akin to re-experiencing the event.

    The facets/events were organized from the present time, going back, so as I traveled further down the tunnel, I was going backwards through my life, revisiting many experiences in perfect memory simultaneously.

    And then after reaching the beginning ('end') of my life, it kept going - life, after life, after life. From the beginning, the mind had been reduced of its capacity to accept or reject the experiences, consciousness consisted of witnessing in a mood of awe and wonder.

    Finally, the very 'end' was reached, or the beginning of the atman's projection into the material reality, and what I saw there made the feeling of any remaining tension, or struggle for meaning, evaporate; it was the funniest thing I had ever felt/seen, insofar as 'it' was even a 'thing,' it was a cosmic joke that by the grace of its humor and benevolence dispelled the pain of existence, redeeming it all. I then blacked out laughing. This experience of time - I don't know how much time, millions, billions of years was compressed into the period of me falling to my knees, and then onto the floor.

    My friends who were there at the time, said that I had collapsed and had a seizure on the floor for about 10 seconds, before coming to and asking what had happened.

    I remember little to nothing of the content of those experiences, and could tell you nothing of either my past lives or the 'cosmic joke' as a result, only the impressions it made on the residual mind commenting on the experiences like a crude level of recording overlaying the actual true memory.

    I believe this occurred as a combination of my state of mind the previous several days before that, in a very inquisitive and open space, as well as the bodily factors.

    After this experience, I was very much drawn back to Hindu dharma in a way I'd not been before - for reasons which I think are readily apparent. This led me into seeking a guru and reading the scriptures, neither of which contradicted my use of ganja.

    Indeed, most of the yogis I have met since that time whom I consider accomplished are users of ganja. Not all of them, but most.

    I think the scope of human history tells a very different tale than the modern, inculcated attitude of prohibition, regarding widespread human use of, and benefit from, cannabis. The fact of the cannabinoid receptor system suggests a long co-evolutionary relationship. It was one of the first plants to be influenced by human breeding, for instance.

    My story and two cents.

    Namaste

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