Yoga and Drugs (Chemicals)

[Believer]

Namaste,

Bob Marley wasn't the only cannabis smoker. Your insults are funny though. I do not take you too serious so don't think I am offended. You are still my Dharma friend.

We are more than Dharma friends, we are Dharma brothers. I apologize for the impression that I was throwing out insults. In my own twisted way, I am seriously asking for Bhagwan Maheshji to be left alone. If somebody does need to associate a ritual/ceremony/habit with divinity to justify using it themselves, I am asking for his favorite cannabis smoker to be elevated to the divine level to provide the association. Bob Marley was just a name I threw out. I know there are others and you have a choice. All I am asking again, as respectfully as I can, is to leave Bhagwan Shivji out of this association.

Pranam.

[Shuddhasattva]

From where has come the idea that Hinduism is being used to justify a habit? Is this a weapon of denigration?

[Eastern Mind]

Off topic, can anyone tell me why there is no sub-forum for Mantra under the Yoga forum?

Vannakkam Giza: I would suggest you ask this in the feedback section. Aum Namasivaya

[Spiritualseeker]

Namaste,

We are more than Dharma friends, we are Dharma brothers. I apologize for the impression that I was throwing out insults. In my own twisted way, I am seriously asking for Bhagwan Maheshji to be left alone. If somebody does need to associate a ritual/ceremony/habit with divinity to justify using it themselves, I am asking for his favorite cannabis smoker to be elevated to the divine level to provide the association. Bob Marley was just a name I threw out. I know there are others and you have a choice. All I am asking again, as respectfully as I can, is to leave Bhagwan Shivji out of this association.

Pranam.

Thank you Dharma brother. Once again though it seems that there is a negative association with Cannabis when we speak about it. No one is saying Lord Shiva is Smoking Ganja with baggy jeans and a gun on his hip. It is used in spiritual discipline. I can only speak for myself, but I can go for months without Ganja. But I am not asking anyone to call me a Hindu. As a matter of fact many Hindus will not accept me, because of my skin color. They would suggest to me to stay in the religion I was born into, which I feel is quite absurd. So I do not call myself a Hindu, due to this, so perhaps that releases some tension concerning this issue. In other words I do not go around masquerading as a Hindu, because I am simply not accepted, but regardless I attempt to practice the teaching, because I feel this is my way.

Ganja is a sacrament and no one can deny this. It is to be used with disciplined if used at all. Ganesh Baba would ask his students that if they smoke Ganja they need to keep their backs straight and take the name of Shiva. This was his requirement of his students when they smoked cannabis. He was known to consume large amounts of Cannabis and yet appear as if unaffected at all. This is the discipline. I have the understanding that everything that comes and goes cannot be the truth, but there are pointers to the truth. I remember one time smoking with a companion. Suddenly I had a realization that I was that person and that i was looking from another place. This experience left me, so it is only temporary and this is duly noted, but the point is pointers occur. Just like when doing breathing practices. Breathing practices can place you in an altered state of consciousness. Even sadness is an altered state of consciousness. These are not the natural state of consciousness. So our lives are like this and we miss the ever so simple truth of I am. Tools such as the Mala beads, the Murti, pranayama, Ganja, and other tools are just supports along the way. The actual goal of any practice is just to realize who we have always been. If we get attached to the beads we may miss the point. I remember experiencing this before. I forgot my wrist mala at home and when I was at work I felt that I was unable to stay focus on saying the name of Shiva, but in reality it was just revealing my attachment to the beads. One can keep the name of Shiva without wooden beads on a string. So with anything you have to watch out for attachment.

I do not think anyone here is suggesting that Shiva is a low life lazy bum. Quite the contrary, when Shiva is intoxicated with Ganja he is in a sober state of seeing things as they are. When one feels anxious and recites a mantra to push away their anxiety, they are trying to get rid of a feeling and do not have the right state of mind when practicing. It is better to feel the anxiety fully (without indulging in the thoughts around it). Ganja should not be used to get rid of problems. Also like I mentioned before sometimes when you Smoke Ganja you may experience that you start to see all the things that are bothering you. This is not always so happy and fun as a lot of people suggest. Sometimes you have to feel whatever emotions come up and deal with them. I have seen non-hindus non-religious people smoking cannabis and suddenly they start speaking about how the mind is an illusion. This is very enlightening for one who is mainly materialistic. It is simply a tool. I am not asking anyone to throw a party and drink liquor, have sex with strangers, and smoke ganja. I am not even asking people to smoke Ganja to meditate or do japa. I am simply showing my point of view. It can be accepted or rejected. I am nothing but words on an internet forum. What substance do I really have? So it makes no difference to me, but I feel that there needs to be made evident the difference between getting a group of friendly women to smoke ganja with you and have orgies and one that smokes Ganja in their sadhana.


I do not think the Sadhu above is going to a disco or looking to have orgies. Discipline. For those with an open mind that want to learn more about Ganja I suggest studying what Ganja does and how our bodies are wired to accept Ganja and mainly THC in the body. As was already mentioned this mysterious plant has co-evolved with humans to form this intimate relationship.

Om Namah Shivaya

[Believer]

Namaste,

If you are a native Hindu, sensitive to ethnic jokes, please skip this post.
I apologize in advance for writing it, but it is part of the narrative and I don't mean to disparage any ethnic group.

Recently I heard an Indian standup comedian, as part of his schtick, deliver a line that Indian people can be associated with 3 D's:If you are from the South, you are Dark, if you from Gujrat, you are Dirt cheap, and if you are from the North, you are Drunk. The only reason I repeat this line is to bring out the fact that in India, Northerners, who imbibe more intoxicants than people of other areas, are the only ones to support this myth of the association of Lord Shiva with weed. All the 'Babas' and their 'akharas' thrive only in the North. So, only the Shiv-pujaris of North India need weed to focus and achieve that higher state of consciousness. Shiv pujaris from the rest of India do fine without it. Also, Ram bkaktas and Krishna bhaktas and Shakti followers are fine with their sadhana without any aids?

If slowing down mental activity is what is termed as higher consciousness, then, may I be bold enough to question why alcohol is bad, if it serves the same purpose. Some of the tantaric traditions stress the use of sex as a tool. During orgasm, all the blood drains out of your brains and one feels that thoughtless state which is considered the moment of bliss and connecting to gods. OMG, is that what spirituality is?

Hinduism is a vast ocean with millions of unstructured/uncontrolled traditions, many of which are off-nominal and practiced by fringe groups. Why hang your spirituality hat on a fringe group's pole? If someone feels that weed gives them focus, why bring it to the Hindu forum? Why not discuss it in the canteen section rather than in the SD section? Why have these Babas as the cheerleaders? Above all, why associate Hindu divinity with this human need/desire. And if you must, why frown upon alcohol and sex used for one's sadhana?

I am sure many of my dharmic brothers see things differently. And that is fine. I just felt compelled to request everyone to not look down upon me, should I choose to use alcohol and sexual promiscuity as means to get to that elusive 'higher consciousness'. Don't try to take my crutches off the table, or be judgemental about them.

Pranam.

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam: Just to confirm, reiterate, or add to what B said, in my 6 weeks or so of travel in TN, and Karnataka, I never once smelled the sweet scent of bhang. I was in a lot of crowded places too.

Aum Namasivaya

[Shuddhasattva]

Namaste

Northerners, who imbibe more intoxicants than people of other areas, are the only ones to support this myth of the association of Lord Shiva with weed.

True enough, but the North has no monopoly on cannabis. Some of the best landraces (traditionally cultivated strains, unique to certain areas, rather than modern hybrids) come from South India.

All the 'Babas' and their 'akharas' thrive only in the North.

The South has its own breeds of ganja-smoking Babas.

So, only the Shiv-pujaris of North India need weed to focus and achieve that higher state of consciousness. Shiv pujaris from the rest of India do fine without it.

It's not so much as need for, but a use of. And yes, one can do fine without it, even if one does use it. Though the use is overwhelmingly more common in the North, it is not at all unknown in the South.

Also, Ram bkaktas and Krishna bhaktas and Shakti followers are fine with their sadhana without any aids?

I don't believe this is accurate. Of the two sadhus I am most familiar with, one is a Maharashtran varkari, the other is a Nepali Ram bhakta, and they both smoke.

If slowing down mental activity is what is termed as higher consciousness, then, may I be bold enough to question why alcohol is bad, if it serves the same purpose.

Cannabis, depending on the subspecies (indica, generally slowing, and sativa, generally speeding), and user's mentality and current state, can either speed the mind, or slow it, either positively or negatively in both contexts. The mind can become dull and slow, if infatuated with material musings and attachments, or slow and quiet, paving the way for samadhi. It can become anxious and overactive, whirling the mind around in confusion, or it can become vigorous and accomplishing in dhyan.

The effects of cannabis are completely different from that of alcohol. Also, alcohol is not necessarily bad. The shaktas and shaivas, and even some vaishnava "a"sampradays use it in their sadhanas at times, and not just the vamacara crowd, which mostly these days, is not even the real cinacara but a perversity justifying itself with misinterpreted sandhya bhash.

Yes, the panchamakara, like its mirror the panchamrita, is symbolic. But why are these symbols chosen? Because they are evocative of important aspects of human life, and all aspects of human life, regardless of the imposition of Victorian moralities, are to be purified and subsumed in the divine.

One should pray for one's next rebirth to be in the womb of a woman who unites with her husband in worship of God, and whose husband likewise upholds the ragadharma and viragadharma in equal measure. It is an auspicious birth.

Should one uphold worship in every area of one's life but the sexual? Is this really a complete worship?

Some of the tantaric traditions stress the use of sex as a tool. During orgasm, all the blood drains out of your brains and one feels that thoughtless state which is considered the moment of bliss and connecting to gods.

This is not accurate. The blood does not drain out of the brain, in fact bloodflow to the brain can be stimulated, as well as different brainwaves. The lassitude that accompanies orgasm is mostly an effect of a massive release of oxytocin, which is also known as the bonding hormone functioning between parentsand children, especially mothers (stimulated through breastfeeding, although interestingly, fathers are also anatomically capable of breastfeeding, with probably the same result).

The vast majority of tantric sex techniques (I do not like using this phrase, as it feeds into mistaken neo-tantric conceptions of what exactly the agama shastra consists of, but nonetheless it is appropriate in this context) are not ones that sanction orgasm at all, but the conservation of semen (or the 'female seed') and its sublimation into tejas - urdhavretas, the same goal of brahmacharis everywhere.

The idea is not to get entrapped in the transient experience of this transcendental, sadhanic sexual encounter (whether grossly physical, or subtle dhyan) or that reverential substance administration, but to carry the core of these experiences throughout one's life, anointing the triple world with them 24/7.

OMG, is that what spirituality is?

Yes, amongst other things.

Hinduism is a vast ocean with millions of unstructured/uncontrolled traditions, many of which are off-nominal and practiced by fringe groups.
Why hang your spirituality hat on a fringe group's pole?

Because sometimes those not on the fringes can't see the forest for the trees, regardless of how their detractors seek to style them by conflating the number of adherents with the truth of doctrine, as if universal truths are governed by mass appeal.

If someone feels that weed gives them focus, why bring it to the Hindu forum?
Why not discuss it in the canteen section rather than in the SD section?

Because it's part of the scriptural, medical and living traditions of Hinduism.

Let me put it to you differently. If someone feels that a vast number of hindus aren't actual hindus, because of their Northern status or somesuch, and that their babas, pujaris, pandits, sampradayas, paramparas and akharas are false, why bring it to a Hindu forum?

Why have these Babas as the cheerleaders? Above all, why associate Hindu divinity with this human need/desire. And if you must, why frown upon alcohol and sex used for one's sadhana?

Desire is the root of the universe. From the universe, the devas are made manifest along with the jivatmans. Are we now to deny that kama, or rati, are gods? Do we deny the vast host of devas, high and low, associated with sexuality and desire, though the fruit of their upasana is the eradication of all cyclical and incomplete forms of desire?

I do not suggest that alcohol and sex be frowned upon either, in the appropriate context of sadhana.

I am sure many of my dharmic brothers see things differently. And that is fine. I just felt compelled to request everyone to not look down upon me, should I choose to use alcohol and sexual promiscuity as means to get to that elusive 'higher consciousness'. Don't try to take my crutches off the table, or be judgemental about them.

Neither shall I attempt to take your keyboard off your desk, your job from your life, your house from over your head, and force you into a renunciation complete enough to, without any trace of hypocrisy, decry the use of all external aids in the fourfold path of life.


Namaste

[Shanti29]

Close this thread. It is an insult to Mahadev to use him as as excuse for your vile habit. He is a divine paradox; the great celibate and fertile, the cosmic dancer and the meditator, the giver of boons and the great ascetic, the destroyer and the recreator. You lack control and seek only instant gratification. Your posts are so long winded. Who are you trying to convince? Many young people are finding their way to Hinduism, I would hate for them to be led astray this nonsense.

[Shuddhasattva]

He is a divine paradox; the great celibate and fertile, the cosmic dancer and the meditator, the giver of boons and the great ascetic, the destroyer and the recreator.

Beautiful. But not the intoxicated and the sober?

You lack control and seek only instant gratification. Your posts are so long winded. Who are you trying to convince? Many young people are finding their way to Hinduism, I would hate for them to be led astray this nonsense.

I will bow to your arguments if you can give just one shruti verse that decries ganja or those who use it. Not alcohol, nothing ambiguous.

[Mana]

हरिः ओम्


Namaste Giza,


Your post has touched my heart, I have at times said to myself that prison would be arguably the best place for me.
I have a strongly visual memory, I need to see things fully in order to memorise them, this mean that the normal
ways of Western studys and exams are really not practical for me at all.
Another "symptom" of this visual memory is extremely high emotional reactivity; which translates as hypersensitivity.
I also feel prana in the body and am aware of its preasance in others, I go slow on speaking of this as most think that
I have been taking drugs or that I am crazy if I do, but basically I have a very emotive memory.
As if the emotion welds the memory in to my vision of the understanding of something. (This is said to be ultimately
longer for memorisation but once memorised 8 times more efficient, dhyAna helps direct the memory process and
guide the path).

I currently hold no real qualifications and find day to day living quite tricky at times.

Thus the thought that prison rather than being abused by the overly competitive people about me, whilst I study,
could have been an option (I no longer think like this).

Spiritual practis is my bread and butter for dealing with this in a meaningful way, to live and function in society,
I am even now managing to take some more direction in my studies. Strangely, mAyA leads those around me to
think that I am a high flyer. They just do not see the same world.

If you look into Kashmir Shavism, you will find that it differs somewhat from Advaita and Hinduism in regards
to Karma yoga.

Karma yoga is seen as living within your state of meditation, all day, in daily life. As you interact with the world
about you, you may find that your prana is related to time universally in ways which are most profound.

It is my feeling that you may benefit greatly from this practis, if you are as sensitive to your body as you have said.
It will be of much greater benefit to you on your path, than any more time spent in prison.

I hope that these words are of meaning and value to you, I just kind of thought they might resonate with you, not
to worry if they don't.


praṇāma

mana


ॐ नमः शिवाय
Aum Namaḥ Śivāya