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Thread: Churches are turning into temples in UK and US

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    Churches are turning into temples in UK and US

    Story here.

    AHMEDABAD: Next month, a Swaminarayan temple will be thrown open to devotees in Los Angeles, California. While there are many Hindu shrines the world over, a majority of them built by global Gujaratis, the consecration scheduled on July 22 is special. For, this abode of Lord Swaminarayan was once a run-down church.

    The 80-year-old church was acquired for $1.3 million by Swaminarayan Maninagar Gaadi Sansthan (SMGS) last year.

    SMGS has acquired five such old churches in Canada, the US and the UK. A fortnight ago, the sect acquired a 121-year-old heritage church building in Toronto, Canada for $1.6 million. While the building is now being converted into a temple-ashram, SMGS plans to retain carvings and glass paintings which are of great heritage value.

    "The idol installation at the California temple will take place in the inspiring presence of Gaadipati Purshottam Pridasji Maharaj," said Bhagwati Priyadasji of SMGS. Gujaratis constitute one of the largest immigrant communities and the growing number of Swaminarayan temples all over the world only underline the financial clout of the community. The SMGS has 12 temples abroad. Most of the churches acquired are situated in prime areas and in a run-down condition.

    Bhagwat Priyadasji said a 40-yearold church spread over three acres in Dalas, Texas, was acquired for $700,000 just a month ago. The trend started in the UK in 1982 when St Ninian's Church was bought for 200,000 pounds and a temple built on the 2.5 acre compound.

    In 1998, when a 70-year-old church in Bolton was bought and turned into a temple, the glass paintings which had images of Jesus Christ and Mother Mary were retained. "People from different faiths visit this temple," says Mahesh Varsani, trustee of Swaminarayan Temple Trust in the UK.

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    Re: Churches are turning into temples in UK and US

    Namaste

    This is utterly ridiculous.

    Why would you want a church, even if it was practically the only land you could acquire? Temples are architected a certain way for a reason, or many reasons. Churches have none of that, the temple architecture is a reflection of the pujas to be undertaken, they are the same sides of the coin. This makes a mockery of the very concept of temples.

    Moreover, spending vast sums of money specifically to acquire churches...

    The mind boggles.

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    Re: Churches are turning into temples in UK and US

    Quote Originally Posted by Shuddhasattva View Post
    Namaste

    This is utterly ridiculous.

    Why would you want a church, even if it was practically the only land you could acquire? Temples are architected a certain way for a reason, or many reasons. Churches have none of that, the temple architecture is a reflection of the pujas to be undertaken, they are the same sides of the coin. This makes a mockery of the very concept of temples.

    Moreover, spending vast sums of money specifically to acquire churches...

    The mind boggles.
    Swaminarayan was an 18th century merchant (if I am not wrong) who claimed himself to be full incarnation of God or something. This sect enshrines his statue in temples and worships him. I am not sure how truly Hindu that it, it has definitely nothing to do with Agamic hinduism of which temple architecture is the part. Agamas don't instruct to worship past people enshrined in temples [ofcourse one can have a shrine for the Guru, but this is not Guru worship]. So temple architecture would probably be 2ndary.

    A more recent sect with similar background are the Brahmakumaris where a merchant after retirement announces himself to be lord brahma and forms a sect of unmarried women with a peculiar apocalyptic theology of approaching Golden age [in which iron literally turns to pure Gold - a baniya wet dream, perhaps] where only 6000 (or so, I forget the number) of Brahmakumaris can find entry - rest going to perish, for the next cycle. This sect also builds large temples and meditation retreats across the world and now a days are advertized as teaching raja-yoga, although its apocalyptic theology and the dubious history of the founder can be found out with little or no effort.

    Its a good thing that they are taking over churches, so we should be joyous. But do we want get all fussy about temple architecture?
    Last edited by Twilightdance; 29 June 2012 at 01:54 AM.

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    Re: Churches are turning into temples in UK and US

    Does it really matter if you convert a Church into a Temple? They are sanctifying an adharmic place with sanatan dharma. Isn't that all that should count?

    I have often thought about buying an old church, if I ever had the money, and converting it into a temple. Also, if you look at the way the old churches were built they are actually fairly similar to Hindu temples. It's the more modern churches which tend to be very sterile and without character or proper dimensions.

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    Re: Churches are turning into temples in UK and US

    I think it is good, give them a piece of their own cake (but without the violence).

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    Re: Churches are turning into temples in UK and US

    Pranam

    One very important reason the churches are bought to convert in to temple is the ready planning permission to worship in them. try buy a land to make a proper Hindu temple, the hurdles that we face is impossible.

    look at the contrast here between Dharma and other religion, while some came and destroyed our temple we actually agonize weather it is proper to convert an established place of worship, even if that place is lying derelict unused and we pay very good price for it.

    Jai shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

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    Re: Churches are turning into temples in UK and US

    Vannakkam: Although there are none locally, I know of a few elsewhere. Having been on a temple building committee, it was certainly one of the things we considered. I think it has worked out great elsewhere. Probably the best example is the Maha Ganapati Devasthanam in Flushing, New York. A devotee had a vision, in a dream, seeing Ganesha going through the roof of a run down church. Then he and a friend drove around the streets of New York until they found the same place he had seen in the vision. So it seems Ganesha himself has no problem.

    Some municipalities, the well planned ones, set aside plots of land zoned religious. But often this is not the case. Rezoning can take years, and often the local residents appeal. In the meantime, what does a worship community do? They often rent a warehouse (at quite the cost) or a small room somewhere, without proper zoning, or much worse, don't start up anything at all. Temples don't start from money, they start from worship. Then money flows. I know one group near here who bought land, not subject to rezoning, didn't get the rezoning done, now are trying to sell the land, still have little worship going on, and have wasted some devotee's money most likely. In the meantime, the core organisers are getting old.

    A church is just excellent for starting up. It takes maybe 3 months, maybe even less. All you have to do is get enough money together to make a mortgage down payment, pull out the pews, build some sort of shrine structures, and voila, you have a temple. Then later, you can remodel, as is the case in the aforementioned temple. Another one following suit is in the bay area of California. Only now, after 20 years, they do have the plans to remodel, and turn it into an agamic temple.

    The problems of starting up from scratch are immense. The first thing is what deities, then there's land, size, fundraising, zoning, building design, and countless committee meetings later.

    Another factor is the cost. Old churches come cheap usually. Its a money drain to the existing faith, and they're happy to just rid themselves of that drain.

    Aum Namasivaya
    Last edited by Eastern Mind; 29 June 2012 at 01:49 PM.

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    Re: Churches are turning into temples in UK and US

    Vannakkam: Organisations like BAPS and ISKCON do better this way, as the umbrella organisation can just go out and buy something. Its not so dependent on tiny groups hither thither, and they often have a spiritual hierarchy. In my view, those groups that appoint a spiritual advisor often do better, as they don't have to argue things out quite so much.

    I'm not even sure any more about 'based on the agamas' stuff. I've seen some that claimed to be based on the agamas, but I think if you went around long enough, for the right price, you'd find some sthapathi somewhere who'll make that claim, because he needs a job too. That's kind of sad.

    Aum Namasivaya

  9. #9

    Re: Churches are turning into temples in UK and US

    Namaste,

    In my humble view the use of a building whose purpose was notoriginally designed for Hindu worship affects the chaitanyam of the temple. Kshetra Vastu shastra is extremely complexand the geometry/ topology of buildings that have been designed for non-Hinduworship may potentially have deleterious consequences for its environment notto mention the worshippers. (Mind you the priest performing the pratishtashould be able to sense if this were the case).

    In the not so distant past (and prior to the selection of asite) any tantric priest could, by simply checking the soil, ensure that it wasnot tainted by bloodshed and violence or any other adharmic act. The Hindutemple would not be built on a site where such things had occurred. Evidentlysuch matters are not considered important any more.
    Pranam





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    Re: Churches are turning into temples in UK and US

    Vannakkam Tapasya: Generally the devotees who purchase such just see it as a temporary thing, like the warehouse ones. If you don't start the worship, and you have young or teenage children (I'm only speaking of here in the west) it takes how many years of no Hinduism at all for them to become interested in a 'foreign' ideology, be it capitalism, atheism, consumerism, or a faith? Not many years, I am betting.

    I am all for any expression of sincere Hinduism at all, and the sooner the better. I read recently of the Mother temple concept in Dallas, TX. Instead of thinking a new group is in conflict with them, this largest and first temple in the Dallas area makes a substantial donation (like a hundred grand or so) to any new temple group coming up. I think that's the spirit. There should be temples everywhere, corner shrines too. Of the 6 or 7 we have in my city, only one is really 'traditional', whatever that word means.

    Aum Namasivaya

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