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Thread: Shubhanallah, Mohammedan men are not only after Hindu/Sikh girls!

  1. #21

    Re: Shubhanallah, Mohammedan men are not only after Hindu/Sikh girls!

    Pranams. Many remarks here, let me try to address all of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by wundermonk View Post
    Thank you. Here is a non-Hindu perspective on the problem

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfKLV6rmLxE
    Thanks for this. But I don't need to be told that Islam is not a religion of peace. I figured that out a long time ago. I'm glad the speaker did not make the mistake of claiming that the true religion of peace is Christianity, as that would have been blatantly delusional. I agree with his point that people like Osama Bin Laden are not necessarily bad Muslims, and that extremism and fundamentalism per se are not necessarily bad - it's the values about which one is fundamental or extreme that make the difference.

    The point I think you might be missing is that how a religion is practiced evolves/devolves over time, in many cases straying frequently from its original scriptural roots. Islam, as defined in the Koran, is a violent, xenophobic, misogynistic religion. However, many people who call themselves "Muslim" don't necessarily follow these values. In particular, the growth of an educated, "moderate" Muslim community in Westernized countries is ample evidence of this. These people would rather have their comfortable lifestyle rather than burn it all up out of religious animosity. I would argue that they are not "true Muslims," but in the end, they still call themselves Muslims and are referred to by the dominant culture as such.

    Quote Originally Posted by param
    It is hard to believe that Islam is a religion, I accepts that Christianity is a religion but it is much corrupted. But Islam is a complete terrorism sponsored by zombies influenced by kuran virus.

    When somebody is influenced by the Kuran Virus, this transforms them into Zombie Muslim and the Muslim spread terror Islam. These real live non fictious Zombies are not only thirsty of blood but also hungry of flesh.

    Kuran+Muslim+Islam = Virus+Zombie+Terror
    I'm afraid I can't agree with this. Christianity at its root is every bit as xenophobic and violent as Islam. While Christians started out as a persecuted minority (unlike Muslims who started out as a violent rebellion), the reality is that Christianity quickly became violent and oppressive once the Roman Empire became a Christian theocracy. Under Christianity, the population of pagans and druids within Europe quickly disappeared, and at least some of this was the direct result of military conflicts. The same pattern was seen in the United States during the 18th-19th centuries which witnessed frank genocide of the Native American populations. That Christianity has acquired a "moderate" image today compared to Islam has nothing to do with its doctrine. It has everything to do with the fact that Christendom, compared to other religious communities, enjoys a dominant share of the world's lands, resources, and wealth, thanks in no small part to its prior history of ongoing military conquest. In contrast, Muslim countries have been the victims of Western Imperialism as recently as several decades ago, continue to depend on foreign powers to supply them with technology, and are no longer able to expand through military conquest. If Christian society had evolved as Islamic society had, I would have no doubt that it would be Christianity that is associted with most incidents of international terrorism.

    Quote Originally Posted by shuddasattva
    Yes, absolutely. They [Latino gangs in the US] have a religion that lets them get away with it. Sin, confess & take mass, rinse, repeat. Some of the Catholic Church's individual members may at some time oppose this sort of superficial Christian identity - often ending up in priests who speak out against gang violence getting shot or otherwise silenced.
    In that case, we should observe that wherever Christianity makes inroads into a non-Christian culture, we must necessarily observe increased gang violence attributed to Christian minorities. But we do not invariably observe that.

    On the other hand, there is another perfectly legitimate explanation that does not require that we falsely invoke Christian doctrine as a cause. Latino gangs recruit almost exclusively from socioeconomically-disadvantaged sections of society. These people turn to crime as a quick and easy way of acquiring wealth. They use their ties within the Latino community and within the churches to recruit more people into their gangs - these existing social networks provide an easy way to communicate with others in the fold, and have nothing to do with religiously-inspired violence. As you yourself have noted, these people murder Catholic priests who speak out against their activities. That hardly seems consistent with violence inspired by Christian belief.

    regards,
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

  2. #22
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    Re: Shubhanallah, Mohammedan men are not only after Hindu/Sikh girls!

    Namaste

    In that case, we should observe that wherever Christianity makes inroads into a non-Christian culture, we must necessarily observe increased gang violence attributed to Christian minorities. But we do not invariably observe that.
    I feel like you're not really listening to my arguments, but reading in strawmen. The problem with Christianity is not so much that it inspires the violence, it's that it excuses it, and takes benefit from it in its social form - the Church and its dependents.

    Nonetheless, in many places, you'll find that whenever Christians come as an outside force - whether as immigrants or invaders, to the extent that there is a difference, there is tremendous bloodshed, subjugation, coercion, etc.

    What are we to say, for example, of violent and coercive Christian activity ? Those are things directly inspired by Christianity, rather than merely finding their basis and justification in identifying with it.

    Islam is far more justificatory of violence and separatist parasitism, both through its scriptural form, and its actual social form as explained previously.

    It both conditions people in ways that will later contribute greatly to this sort of behavior later in life, and provides them succor as a social structure, even if they are only 'external display Muslims.'


    Namaste

  3. #23

    Re: Shubhanallah, Mohammedan men are not only after Hindu/Sikh girls!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shuddhasattva View Post
    Namaste

    I feel like you're not really listening to my arguments, but reading in strawmen. The problem with Christianity is not so much that it inspires the violence, it's that it excuses it, and takes benefit from it in its social form - the Church and its dependents.

    Nonetheless, in many places, you'll find that whenever Christians come as an outside force - whether as immigrants or invaders, to the extent that there is a difference, there is tremendous bloodshed, subjugation, coercion, etc.

    What are we to say, for example, of violent and coercive Christian activity ? Those are things directly inspired by Christianity, rather than merely finding their basis and justification in identifying with it.

    Islam is far more justificatory of violence and separatist parasitism, both through its scriptural form, and its actual social form as explained previously.

    It both conditions people in ways that will later contribute greatly to this sort of behavior later in life, and provides them succor as a social structure, even if they are only 'external display Muslims.'


    Namaste
    Pranams,

    I'm sorry that you feel that way.

    Christianity (like Islam) can be used to justify violence, that is true. I've never disagreed with that. But not all violence that occurs due to Christian people has a religious dimension. This is the difference.

    There is a difference between "Christianity" and being "Christian." Similarly, there is a difference between "Islam" and being a "Muslim."

    The Latino gang example you brought up is not violence in the name of religion. It is violence for economic reasons which sometimes takes advantage of church social networks for recruiting purposes.

    The dangers of giving child sexual abuse a specifically Muslim connotation are multiple. First, it can mislead people into thinking that, minus the Muslim presence, it isn't a significant problem. That would be a tragic misunderstanding. Second, it could inspire oppressive behavior by legal authorities against people solely based on their ethnic affiliations. The British authorities admitted that they didn't have the data to specifically associate increased rates of child-sexual-abuse with Muslims. Yet, one almost gets the impression that we should be monitoring Muslims more, simply by virtue of their being Muslim.

    The lesson here is, always, always, question biased journalistic reporting of ethnic violence.
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

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    Re: Shubhanallah, Mohammedan men are not only after Hindu/Sikh girls!

    Namaste,

    Since people seem to be talking past each other without any convergence and it is a matter of 'winning the debate', may I suggest keeping the pointers in the following link in mind for a successful outcome:

    http://hindudharmaforums.com/showthr...ic+discussions

    Pranam.

  5. Re: Shubhanallah, Mohammedan men are not only after Hindu/Sikh girls!

    Quote Originally Posted by charitra View Post
    It is not people making religion bad there, instead, it is the religious texts that make people bad in Islam.
    I already mentioned that in small words, nobody is Muslim Zombie without being infected by Koran Virus. Good people badly need complete security of Dharma, Hindutva anti-virus is what they need, but Zombies are promoting the bug of secularism to prevent anti-virus to cure them.
    [CENTER][B][FONT=Arial Black][SIZE=7][COLOR=Yellow] ॐ[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
    [/CENTER]

  6. #26

    Re: Shubhanallah, Mohammedan men are not only after Hindu/Sikh girls!

    My point all along is simply that we should be wary of journalism that portrays non-ethnic crimes as if they are mostly or exclusively ethnic problems. We may want to agree with the UK case because it serves our purposes as Hindus. However, the same biased reporting used against Muslims can just as easily be used against Hindus. Most people in the Western world (sadly) cannot even distinguish between Hindus and Muslims.
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

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    Re: Shubhanallah, Mohammedan men are not only after Hindu/Sikh girls!

    Namaste,

    I was amused to see you calling yourself a 'spurious Hindu' , which you are not.
    Quote Originally Posted by philosoraptor View Post
    My point all along is simply that we should be wary of journalism that portrays non-ethnic crimes as if they are mostly or exclusively ethnic problems. We may want to agree with the UK case because it serves our purposes as Hindus. However, the same biased reporting used against Muslims can just as easily be used against Hindus. Most people in the Western world (sadly) cannot even distinguish between Hindus and Muslims.
    All your points are well taken, but in this case it is not a fabricated or embellished account of events by the 'dirty' journalists. Your conscious seems to be bothered by some unrelated events? Arise O Arjun, why are your knees buckling?

    Pranam.
    Last edited by Believer; 04 July 2012 at 10:38 AM.

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    Re: Shubhanallah, Mohammedan men are not only after Hindu/Sikh girls!

    Even fellow Pakistani Muslims are admitting that this is a problem that needs to be talked about and not simply dismissing the newsreport as a piece of substandard hit journalism.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18117529

    Phew, we dodged a bullet there, did we not? I was thinking that we here on HDF may like to discredit the newsreport and claim that Islamic culture has nothing to do with this issue on the one hand, while on the other hand, FELLOW MUSLIMS are arguing that religion/culture does have something to do with this.

    This would be similar to the following:

    NDTV's Barkha Dutt arguing that Islam is a benevolent religion VERSUS
    ex-Muslim Salman Rushdie arguing that Islam is a satanic religion.

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    Re: Shubhanallah, Mohammedan men are not only after Hindu/Sikh girls!

    Pranam

    Quote Originally Posted by philosoraptor View Post
    However, the same biased reporting used against Muslims can just as easily be used against Hindus. Most people in the Western world (sadly) cannot even distinguish between Hindus and Muslims.
    If this was the point you wanted to convey all along, i don't think most Hindu here would disagree with you. Sad fact of life here in the west, we get lumped here as Asians, though there has been some acknowledgement within the general populace, there is a gulf off difference but it serves it purpose for media to lump us together, keep us down.

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

  10. #30

    Re: Shubhanallah, Mohammedan men are not only after Hindu/Sikh girls!

    The people are pretty stupid to fall for the tricks that the muslims do..
    http://i.imgur.com/Y9Jgd.gif
    Jai Chausath Yogini Devi(s)

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