God particle?

[realdemigod]

For all

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...-cern-science/

[devisarada]

For all

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...-cern-science/

Think of the Hiranyagarba, the "Cosmic Womb", the "Golden Egg", "Brahman". Higgs Boson, the unfortunately tagged "God Particle, which is said to impart mass and shape to other sub atomic particles, if t is established that it exists, is one more piece of strong evidence that advaita, or monism is the fundamental model of the universe. That God is the Universe, and that the Universe is God. Tat Sat.

I am sure that those who follow Iskcon's translation of the Bhagavad Gita and Srila Prabhupada's purports of the same would vehemently disagree.

[devisarada]

Isa and other Upanishads, Bell Theorem and Holographic Universe


http://www.the-covenant.net/rumb02.htm

[wundermonk]

if t is established that it exists, is one more piece of strong evidence that advaita, or monism is the fundamental model of the universe. That God is the Universe, and that the Universe is God. Tat Sat.

This is precisely what I was hoping we would avoid - trying to somehow sneak our own pet philosophies in one way or another.

I am sure that those who follow Iskcon's translation of the Bhagavad Gita and Srila Prabhupada's purports of the same would vehemently disagree.

Why the pot shot at ISKCONites here? And, why exactly would they vehemently disagree?

[devisarada]

This is precisely what I was hoping we would avoid - trying to somehow sneak our own pet philosophies in one way or another.



Why the pot shot at ISKCONites here? And, why exactly would they vehemently disagree?

This is not intended as a pot shot at Iskcon. Nor am I trying to "sneak" in my own "pet " philosophy. This is not a political forum.

Iskcon's philosophy is based on Dvaita. (Dualism).

According to my understanding, the Higgs Boson exists within Creation, which would confirm that Advaitic perspective.

Therefore, being Dvaitists, the Iskconites would not agree.

I thought this would have been abundantantly obvious.

Perhaps, Mr. Wundermonk, you can enlighten me exactly as to how establishment of the existence of the particle supports the Dvaitic position.

[Twilightdance]

if t is established that it exists, is one more piece of strong evidence that advaita, or monism is the fundamental model of the universe. That God is the Universe, and that the Universe is God.

??? ... if universe is God then why do you call it God? This is one more piece to prove the closed universe model and reject all forms of God monist or dualists once for all - but we are still quite a bit from there unfortunately. Further, even if we solve all pieces of universe - the fundamental forces, dark matter, dark energy etc and conclusively prove closed universe model then also people will keep believing in God and religion and all other forms unfounded fantasies since they serve a psychological necessity. Creationism may take a hit - but not God, unfortunately.

[wundermonk]

According to my understanding, the Higgs Boson exists within Creation, which would confirm that Advaitic perspective.

What does "exist within Creation" mean? What would it mean for something to "exist outside of Creation"? Unless we agree on these, whether the discovery of Higgs Boson lends support to one perspective more than another cannot be adequately decided.

Therefore, being Dvaitists, the Iskconites would not agree.

See above. Again, this is a hasty conclusion not supported by the data/information available now.

Perhaps, Mr. Wundermonk, you can enlighten me exactly as to how establishment of the existence of the particle supports the Dvaitic position.

It is premature to argue about theorems when the definitions and axioms are not in place and agreed to by all.

So, please go ahead and define the terms involved precisely before we can make onward progress.

[devisarada]

.....It is premature to argue about theorems when the definitions and axioms are not in place and agreed to by all....

.

At first blush, this statement seems to be an oxymoron. Judging by the positive reception the announcement received in the scientific community, there seems to be a general acceptance that the discovery strongly appears to validate the Standard Model.

As to your requirement that definitions and axioms be agreed to by all: who are these all?

Further, it did not slip past my notice that you have attempted to dodge the question of Dvaita philosophy versus Advaita.
Of course. Dvaitists and Avaitists will never agree. It is certainly not up to us to judge who is right and who is wrong.

As to the timeliness or prematurity of this discussion; it depends on what your goals are. If they are to come to an absolutely irrefuteable conclusion, then yes, it will always be premature.

If, on the other hand you wish to engage in a friendly, non
adversarial, non judgemental exchange of ideas, then this discussion is very timely indeed.

This discovery will have a profoundly broad and diverse effect on many religions and their adherants among families, communities, and, even geopolitically.

This is why an open exchange of ideas is so crucial. The last thing we need is for believers of any philosophy/religion/dharma to hunker down and hide in the shadows of dogma.

I'm all for engaging in a respectful, meaningful exchange of ideas instead of a meaningless, adversarial debate. I have no desire to challenge or tear anyone's ideas to shreads.

[wundermonk]

I am not dodging anything.

You made the claim that Dvaitins/ISKCONites would be troubled by the discovery of the ''God particle''. I asked for reasons supporting this assertion. You replied thus:

Iskcon's philosophy is based on Dvaita. (Dualism). According to my understanding, the Higgs Boson exists within Creation, which would confirm that Advaitic perspective. Therefore, being Dvaitists, the Iskconites would not agree.

The last two of the sentences above need to be justified. Don't you think so?

[Twilightdance]

For those wanting to more about it in seriousness, the following BBC documentary was interesting.

Obviously, Religion and God are last things in the minds of the people working on this project, they have a more interesting fish to fry:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&fe...&v=raKN0RddL3A