After life?

[InaweofDurga]

I'm a bit new to all of this and have been reading as much as I can but I have something that is confusing me.

Am I understanding this correctly: If we remove all of the ego all that is left is the Atman/Brahman that pervades all. Also, I read that that part of us after the ego is gone is like the part of us that is there when we are in deep sleep. So, after we die it's just like being asleep? Which, is kind of the same as saying that there is nothing after death, unless of course there is reincarnation but then that is just incarnation if there is not an 'me' to reincarnate.

I probably have this really wrong so please forgive my ignorance.

[wundermonk]

Hi,

There are atleast three different POVs on soteriology in Hinduism.

(1)Nyaya/Mimamsa view: Final salvation is described by negation - "absence of pain". The reason for this is metaphysical. Per Nyaya, consciousness is an adventitious property of the self. The self that reincarnates can have consciousness only only if it is embodied. In moksha, since there is no embodiment, there is no consciousness. Hence, "absence of pain" is the best way to describe this. This is also similar to certain Buddhist soteriological claims.

(2)Dvaitin view: Final salvation consists of the potential for embodiment if desired. This thread may be of help.

(3)Advaitin view: The essential nature of the self is existence-consciousness-bliss. So, unlike the Nyaya, the Advaitin view is that embodiment is not necessary for consciousness. The self is consciousness itself. So, the Advaitin description of moksha is in positive terms such as bliss (as opposed to the Nyaya). Also, the Advaitin will not agree with you that deep sleep is similar to "just like being asleep". After one wakes up from dreamless sleep, one does feel beautifully refreshed, do not you think so? The Advaitin argues that this is because in dreamless deep sleep and beyond, the self achieves its primordial nature. Kind of like how for all of us even now, sleeping in the foetal position is most comfortable. When someone beats us up, we instinctively recoil into the foetal position. Why? Because that was how we were inside our mother's wombs for 9 months and we feel most protected in that state.

[Amrut]

difference between deep sleep and samadhi is that in deep sleep you are not aware of Atman but in Samadhi, you are fully aware of Atman. you are consciousness.

After one dies, the soul still remains, as by dropping body does not mean you are realized, else all hindus will commit suicide.

you are Atman, but you do not know. when you die or in deep sleep, you still do not know that you are atman. So when you wake up, again, the ego arise. Only after samadhi, the ego is completely removed.

so if you are in samadhi, and then again mind and ego arises, pulling you in duality, still you are not liberated. To be liberated, you have to abide in SELF / Atman effortlessly, so that you do not need to meditate to abide in SELF.

After the ego has completely wiped out, it does not rise again, and so you are always in Atma-sthiti i.e. in state of SELF realization.

Aum

[InaweofDurga]

Hi,

There are atleast three different POVs on soteriology in Hinduism.

(1)Nyaya/Mimamsa view: Final salvation is described by negation - "absence of pain". The reason for this is metaphysical. Per Nyaya, consciousness is an adventitious property of the self. The self that reincarnates can have consciousness only only if it is embodied. In moksha, since there is no embodiment, there is no consciousness. Hence, "absence of pain" is the best way to describe this. This is also similar to certain Buddhist soteriological claims.

(2)Dvaitin view: Final salvation consists of the potential for embodiment if desired. This thread may be of help.

(3)Advaitin view: The essential nature of the self is existence-consciousness-bliss. So, unlike the Nyaya, the Advaitin view is that embodiment is not necessary for consciousness. The self is consciousness itself. So, the Advaitin description of moksha is in positive terms such as bliss (as opposed to the Nyaya). Also, the Advaitin will not agree with you that deep sleep is similar to "just like being asleep". After one wakes up from dreamless sleep, one does feel beautifully refreshed, do not you think so? The Advaitin argues that this is because in dreamless deep sleep and beyond, the self achieves its primordial nature. Kind of like how for all of us even now, sleeping in the foetal position is most comfortable. When someone beats us up, we instinctively recoil into the foetal position. Why? Because that was how we were inside our mother's wombs for 9 months and we feel most protected in that state.

Thank you wundermonk, for your reply. It is certainly difficult to grasp all these new concepts!

Well, I was considering that I was more suited to the Advaitan view of God but now I'm not so sure again. When you say that the essential nature of self is existence-consciousness-bliss I find it really difficult to understand how those conditions are possible without any attachments, but I guess that is the reason the path is difficult. I think I may have felt what it's like to be 'existence-consciousness-bliss' a couple of times while sitting with my feet in the river and the sun on my back, like a moment where you are so relaxed that nothing else matters but also feel connected to the surroundings - do you think that is how it feels?

I read the link you added but I need some time to look up the new words and ponder

difference between deep sleep and samadhi is that in deep sleep you are not aware of Atman but in Samadhi, you are fully aware of Atman. you are consciousness.

After one dies, the soul still remains, as by dropping body does not mean you are realized, else all hindus will commit suicide.

you are Atman, but you do not know. when you die or in deep sleep, you still do not know that you are atman. So when you wake up, again, the ego arise. Only after samadhi, the ego is completely removed.

so if you are in samadhi, and then again mind and ego arises, pulling you in duality, still you are not liberated. To be liberated, you have to abide in SELF / Atman effortlessly, so that you do not need to meditate to abide in SELF.

After the ego has completely wiped out, it does not rise again, and so you are always in Atma-sthiti i.e. in state of SELF realization.

Aum

Thank you for your helpful post.

I still am having thoughts that without my attachments I don't care if I have consciousness or not. I guess that I have been brought up to believe that after death we meet with departed loved ones and wait for our loved ones who are still living so we can all skip around collecting flowers in the garden of heaven... or something.