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Thread: Love and Marriage

  1. #11
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    Re: Love and Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by McKitty View Post
    I am sorry but I think this situation id awful. What's next ? Putting all womens into garbage bags and hiding, locking them in closets like in pakistan ?Yes, this will sure resolve all problems, it's well known that a good man id never in fault when assaulting a woman. Just look in middle east what's happening, killing womens and poisoning young girls in their schools...such holy mens!
    Sisters from Bharat, rejoice! They will save your souls !

    EDIT: TALKING ABOUT HARASSEMENT CASES FEATURED IN ARTICLE, NOT ABOUT MARRIAGE. Sorry

    Vanakkam,

    Seeing this have been misunderstood and that my message wasn't clear anough, I would like to apologize about this and to point out this BIG edit that clearly state I am talking about measures taken regarding harassement and NOT about marriage.

    I am not in a country where this is practiced, it's not forbidden, it's simply not (or not anymore) a part of our culture.

    Yes, I do agree with Eastern Mind: "selling" mens and womens in marrage is a questionable issue. However, the parents choosing to put their child into marriage for the interest of both sides and for the future family is okay. I don't see problem in this since both sides are responsible adults.

    However, in "love" marriage, looking for the right and responsible partner is a very hard path...But still possible.

    I didn't knew about the divorce rate in USA, this is incredible Oo But I'm not even surprised, as younger generations become more and more involved into many relationships with many persons without even thinking about it. People marry total strangers because "you live ony once after all!" and "I met him at the bar, we had sex 10 minutes later!", so I'm not impressed about the divorce rate if after they realize they don't belong together or the man beat the woman or the woman beat the man....


    My opinion on this is, this is not really a "this way is better than this one" question. A relationship last only if both sides are mature and responsible people. Should they get together by "fate" or by their parents, it's the same. Should the woman be "sold" to a random man, this is not very right I think, and this can end really bad for the woman.


    Aum Namah Shivaya
    ~Aum Namah Shivaya~

  2. #12

    Re: Love and Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastern Mind View Post
    I'm against sight-unseen forced arranged marriages for economic (read immigration sometimes) reasons. I think it's inhumane, and unethical. All the arranged marriages I know have had the persons involved having final authority to say yes or no.
    Pranams,

    What about the ones you have not seen? Rama was married to Sita, and Sita's three sisters were married to Rama's three brothers. The husbands and wives did not meet or see each other prior to marriage. Would you say their marriages were "inhumane" and "unethical?"

    regards,
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

  3. #13
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    Re: Love and Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by philosoraptor View Post
    Pranams,

    What about the ones you have not seen? Rama was married to Sita, and Sita's three sisters were married to Rama's three brothers. The husbands and wives did not meet or see each other prior to marriage. Would you say their marriages were "inhumane" and "unethical?"

    regards,
    Not at all, but I don't mix scripture with the reality of the day. Even some today, by quite wise elders, I've seen work out just fine. Others ... well, if it weren't for the stigma of divorce, they'd be divorced. These were about 40 years ago. I'm old enough to have seen some evolving of the institution.

    Aum Namasivaya

  4. #14

    Re: Love and Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastern Mind View Post
    Not at all, but I don't mix scripture with the reality of the day.
    Pranams,

    I'm not sure what the last clause means here. You said marriages in which boy and girl don't see each other are inhumane and unethical, but failed to apply that standard to the marriage of Rama and Sita. Not only Sita and Rama, but there are many other marriages in our epics which took place the same way. Why aren't they "inhumane" and "unethical?"

    Perhaps you may wish to amend alter your original statement. That's all I'm saying.

    In previous ages, people had greater fidelity to their duties and religious principles. For parents this meant finding a good match for son/daughter while for son/daughter it meant upholding their duties in a religiously-sanctioned marriage. Gandhaari did not complain that she never knew prior to marriage that Dritharaashtra was blind. Instead, she quietly blindfolded herself to share in her husband's situation.

    Viewing of the spouse-to-be did not appear to be a huge issue for ancient Hindus, whereas it is for us today. Frankly, I think this says more about us and our priorities than it does about them, and I think we should all maintain a bit of humility when we consider the ramifications of that.

    regards,
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

  5. #15
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    Re: Love and Marriage

    Namast,

    Just FYI: The "50-60% divorce rate" statistic, often cited with much gasping and tongue-clucking at America, is sensationalist; it grabs headline attention but is also factually wrong. The actual number ranges between 11% and 33%, depending on how the calculation is made.

    One who wishes to understand why, may read this analysis for the simple reason that the calculation done by pop journalism is wrong, and/or this article for the various ways in which the divorce rate of any population may be calculated - all of which provide different totals.

    Certainly a 33% number for divorce is still not desirable - and I write that, even while being one of that number - but I do feel that arguments of societal decline, neglect of tradition, and casual disregard for oaths should be based upon a correct assessment of the situation.

    Indraneela
    ===
    Oṁ Indrāya Namaḥ.
    Oṁ Namaḥ Śivāya.

  6. #16
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    Re: Love and Marriage

    Vannakkam phil: I have no intention of getting into some long-winded argument with you, nor anyone else. You obviously know far more about scripture than I do, and I simply have no desire to compete about who knows more about marriage, traditional or otherwise, and how practical life works or doesn't work with a wide variety of scripture. I work from observation and intuition, and our takes will most likely vary. I see no point in all this. I put down some of my observations, and if you want to find contradictions in what I said, all the more power to you. I concede automatically to the greater intellect. With that, I'm out. Best wishes in a successful marriage, if you have one.

    Aum Namasivaya
    Last edited by Eastern Mind; 14 July 2012 at 09:24 PM.

  7. #17

    Re: Love and Marriage

    Sounds good.

    If there is anyone else who wants to take a crack at the "You Hindus and your marriage customs are inhumane, unethical, unjust, backward, stupid, superstitious," etc argument, let me know.

    All I'm looking for is consistency and depth in an argument that holds that my ancestors were bad people for engaging in "no sight beforehand" arranged marriages. It just never occurred to me until now to think of them as inhumane.

    As an aside, I'm positively delighted that the divorce rate in the United States may actually be as low as 33%. I admit, I've quoted the 55-60% figure for some time now as I've heard it everywhere without being challenged. But on the other hand, I don't think either statistic takes into account the massive number of love children produced in American inner cities, not infrequently resulting in broken families, often before the child is even born. Though not "marriages," they did start with "love," which I think underscores the inherent social dysfunction in a system where people mate without having first a grounding in genuine spiritual values.

    regards,
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

  8. #18
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    Re: Love and Marriage

    Just one point:the village in question was overwhelmingly muslim majority and the sarpanch who made the decision was also a muslim.to correct misconceptions in some of the comments above.

  9. #19

    Re: Love and Marriage

    हरिः ओम्


    Namaste All,

    A fascinating and most important topic. I have never heard a truer word spoken than that:

    "The marital state of couples and marriage tradition is a direct reflection of the health of a society"

    Given the light of my recent exploration into Jyotish and any analysis of my personal relationships since.

    I would put faith in an experienced and accomplished Jyotisha to advise as to the compatibility of my
    partner with myself. We do learn to select our selves with time, and love is a very important factor for
    those who are attuned to these strong emotional responses. Else children a born out side of a stable
    family basis.

    The strong response being the very reason that an outside guidance is invaluable in wise selection.

    This is obvious to any Jyotisha, the very reason why the 12th house is 6th from the 7th house of marriage.
    The problem however may be in finding a Jyotisha with the foresight and liberty of mind, to not become
    embroiled with the politics of social dogma, whilst still maintaining dharma.


    praṇāma

    mana


    ॐ नमः शिवाय
    Aum Namaḥ Śivāya
    8i8

  10. #20
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    Re: Love and Marriage

    Romantic love is a medieval western creation. Romantic love is quite new in the history of the world and of human feelings. It can work quite well and it can be a disaster. I'm sure any type of marriage can fare for better or for worse, it all has to do with the individuals and how much they grow out of that bond.

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