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Thread: what about Maa Kli ?

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    what about Maa Kli ?

    Vanakkam everyone !

    I would like to know more about Maa Kali and her symbolism, her actions, her stories...I searched on internet but didn't find any satisfying material, and to be honest, I respect and bow to Maa Kali as a form of the supreme Mother, but I cannot meditate on Her since I'm really frightened by her appearance. Even thinking about Her, I become agitated and quickly seek refuge at the feets of Maa Durga to peace my mind.

    Yet I have a real strong desire to know her more. I feel it can help me understand the world and the teachings of Sri Sri Ramakrishna better.

    I would like to know too why she scares me so hard. I mean, I'm less scared by Sri Sri Maa Pratyangira Devi than Maa Kali ! Maybe by understanding her better, it would dissipate my ignorance and help to gain more knowledge in the Path.


    So, if a knowledgable Shakta would be kind to enlighten an ignorant woman, I thank you from the deep of my heart !


    Aum Namah Shivaya

    Jai jai mata di !
    ~Aum Namah Shivaya~

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    Talking Re: what about Maa Kli ?

    Aum Namah Shivaya
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    "Reality must always be real. It is not with forms and names. That which underlies these is the reality. It underlies limitations, being itself limitless. It is not bound. It underlies unrealities, itself being real. Reality is that which is. It is as it is. It transcends speech. It is beyond the expressions 'existence, non-existence', etc." ~Sri Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi~

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    Re: what about Maa Kli ?

    Namaste

    In addition to the wonderful information already provided, tbere is a member of the forum called Kali Bhakta who I feel can share some very direct sources and books on The Devi Kali Mother.

    I am not in a position to offer much, but only from one insight as a gift from others I might add one small mention.

    Sometimes Kali has come to a very few, of which in the histories of three saints I have heard in story including Trailinga, where Kali came before a human in the form of a young girl.

    Sometimes these things are difficult to explain, but in part and coming from an unauthorized person such as myself, this aspect is not just a young girl but all of womenkind today which is still a child but in the future fises like the sun rise before a very hot day, when this child will become a Woman, all women, in the future, a rise of Womenhood at a future time still to come.

    But these things are not to do with materialism.

    To me personally, Kali always calls me to come to Her home, a pitha called by me Calcutta, today called Kolkata and many other names. She is there, there is no question about it.

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    Smile Re: what about Maa Kli ?

    I feel very close to her, to all forms of Shiva actually. I love ferociousness. She reminds me not to internalise my anger. I do not focus on material items, prestige and power when I think of her, only clothed with the limbs and heads of her enemies. I try to help the downtrodden like she would. Kali is a mother after all so there is no reason to be afraid of her. You can rest your head on her lap and be comforted.

    http://youtu.be/VnDB31O7-fg - A short vid on understanding Kali Maa. You've probably already familiar with most of it but the music and imagery should help see her in a new light.

    http://youtu.be/6UgveOFNYyQ - Jai Maa Kali

    http://youtu.be/fmHg_mA5ASg - Dance of Kali

    http://youtu.be/Jt5SFjtChdc - Jai Maa Kali from the movie Karan Arjun. This is one of my all time favourites and not just because Kajol and SRK are in it.

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    Re: what about Maa Kli ?

    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namast

    Quote Originally Posted by McKitty View Post
    Vanakkam everyone !
    I would like to know more about Maa Kali and her symbolism, her actions, her stories...
    Perhaps you will find this HDF posting of interest:
    http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=3226

    praām
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: what about Maa Kli ?

    Quote Originally Posted by McKitty View Post
    I respect and bow to Maa Kali as a form of the supreme Mother, but I cannot meditate on Her since I'm really frightened by her appearance.


    Aum Namah Shivaya

    Jai jai mata di !
    Actually that Kali is called mother does not say anything about her nature, it rather describes the preferred mood of the bhakta, who conceives of her as a Mother, deliberately ignoring other aspects, for his own good. For instance if a delinquent does adress a judge "O ocean of grace, have mercy on me" does that make the judge an ocean of mercy? No-it is mereley an effort to adress the merciful aspect of his nature rather than the cruel.

    There are several moods in which a bhakta can adress the deity usually they are enumerated as Shanta, (peaceful) Dasya (servant, child), Sakhya, (friendship) Vatsalya (caring,motherly) and Madhurya (as spouse) Bhavas.

    These different attitudes or moods do not reveal to us the true nature of the deity but they solely relate to the mind of the devotee.

    That Kali is perceived as a caring Mother is therefore at first sight a little misleading, one should not judge her nature according to emotional customizing of the bhakti movement.

    Even if she is adressed as mother her true nature is destructive. She is the process of Samhara, the dissolution of the universe. She is also the so called mystical Samvarta Fire that flames up at the close of a cosmic cylcle and entirely reduces everything to ashes. She even swallows up time.

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    Re: what about Maa Kli ?

    Vanakkam,

    Thank you all for those answer, it's very useful ! Escpecially the tread you linked, it's very full and informative, everything I needed to understand the postures and symbolism of Kali Maa !

    @MahaHrada

    Oh don't worry, I do not have any intend to become a Kali Bhakta. It was more for knowledge sake. I have read yesterday that the Shakta/Bhakti seeing Kali as supreme Mother is not very old.
    Everything I have read and understand about Her is very clear, I acknowledge that she is the most profound aspect of the bottom of the ocean, the most destructive aspect of all. Yet I acknowledge too that, being that, she contain the whole universe. She is the perfect embodiment of pure action.
    What she is doesn't stop me from bowing to her, acknowledging her role in the manifested and unmanifested universe.
    Being a bhakta is also having knowledge and openess. This include learning, and following the advices of guru and more knwledgable people like you.

    Lord Shivaji is the Supreme Lord in my heart, but what is Shiva without Shakti ? Without Parvati Devi, Annapurna Devi, Durga Maa ? Shiva is potential creation, infinite power, but without action there is no creation.

    Without waves, ocean is just a flat mirror.

    Thank you very much for your andwers and advices !

    Aum Namah Shivaya
    ~Aum Namah Shivaya~

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    Re: what about Maa Kli ?

    Namaste.

    Quote Originally Posted by MahaHrada View Post
    These different attitudes or moods do not reveal to us the true nature of the deity but they solely relate to the mind of the devotee.
    Though I am a self-identified Vaishnava, I see Maa Kali in that light... in my mind as just one aspect of the Divine Mother, an aspect of God as Mother and Father. In my mind, Maa Kali is like the she-bear or she-wolf who will attack and savage anyone or anything that threatens her cubs. The cubs see their mother as nothing more than their mother who cares for them. They don't understand, know or care what her ferocity is or what her other attributes or behaviors are, only that she is there for them. Why should they?

    This is just my view.
    śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ

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    Thumbs Down Re: what about Maa Kli ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jainarayan View Post
    They don't understand, know or care what her ferocity is or what her other attributes or behaviors are, only that she is there for them. Why should they?

    This is just my view.
    Completely insulting. You are a Vaishnava. Obviously you will find Vishnu and his various avatars more pleasing to the eye and approachable but how can you insult that which you do not understand?
    Do you think we are mindless devotees only seeking shelter from a Goddess that looks ferocious?
    We lack understanding?
    Your reply really says more about you than anything.
    We are not all Vaishanavas. We are not all of the same nature and temperament. We do not see the world through the same lens.

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    Re: what about Maa Kli ?

    Quote Originally Posted by McKitty View Post
    Vanakkam,

    Thank you all for those answer, it's very useful ! Escpecially the tread you linked, it's very full and informative, everything I needed to understand the postures and symbolism of Kali Maa !

    @MahaHrada

    Oh don't worry, I do not have any intend to become a Kali Bhakta. It was more for knowledge sake. I have read yesterday that the Shakta/Bhakti seeing Kali as supreme Mother is not very old.
    Everything I have read and understand about Her is very clear, I acknowledge that she is the most profound aspect of the bottom of the ocean, the most destructive aspect of all. Yet I acknowledge too that, being that, she contain the whole universe. She is the perfect embodiment of pure action.
    What she is doesn't stop me from bowing to her, acknowledging her role in the manifested and unmanifested universe.
    Being a bhakta is also having knowledge and openess. This include learning, and following the advices of guru and more knwledgable people like you.

    Lord Shivaji is the Supreme Lord in my heart, but what is Shiva without Shakti ? Without Parvati Devi, Annapurna Devi, Durga Maa ? Shiva is potential creation, infinite power, but without action there is no creation.

    Without waves, ocean is just a flat mirror.

    Thank you very much for your andwers and advices !

    Aum Namah Shivaya
    Thank you for your kind appreciation,
    I was not concerned about you becoming a Shakti bhakta, but Ramakrishna was a Kali Bhakta, not a tantric, so thats why his attitude to Kali was one of a child and his mother.
    For a tantric she is not so much the mother but on a cosmic level the samvarta fire or on the personal level, the fire of ones own funeral pyre, or the ascending Kundalini which is one and the same principle.
    The emotional attitude of child and mother is not in the foreground of the view of the tantric sadhak, but the experience of the dissolution of the constituents of the world (tattvas) and the mind by the force of Kali as Kundalini in his own self. Here technically she is one with the devottee (samarasa) there is no emotion of difference between the Guru, the devata (Kali) Kundalini and one´s own self.
    If you have the wish to understand Ramakrishna better, as per your posting, you must consider the different mood swings that are typical of the bhakta path.
    But generally Kali is a Goddess that is best approached by the tantric path, that is her origin and that is where her activities and symbolism make the most sense. A tantric is emotionally more disciplined than a bhakta.
    Last edited by MahaHrada; 22 July 2012 at 02:10 PM.

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