Why The Fuss?

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam Equnox

Preciously why fuss, who is fussing ? The Brits, the biggest class conscious country in the world spread the lies and the Hindu apologist take the bait. Why fuss over it, I could just carry on my bhajan and damn with it all, but that is an easy way out. I will be failing my ancestors, who fought this bigots to preserve the dharma, the dharma that was and is based on Varnashram

Jai Shree Krishna

[Equinox]

Vannakkam Ganeshprasad,


I love my ancestors!

[Believer]

Namaste,

The only time when 'upper' caste Hindus seem to worry about caste is when finding an appropriate spouse. Other than that, when does caste come into play?

For the 'lower' castes, caste simply does not exist. But when it comes to Brahmin-bashing(or any 'upper-caste' for that matter), they seem to be extremely enthusiastic. And they always aspire to marry someone from the upper castes, from my humble observations. If given a chance, they would love to rule over everyone too, just like anybody else. Isn't that hypocritical?

Agree.

As far as I know, Hinduism has survived so well to this very day, without actively proselytizing.

'Hinduism has survived so well' sounds erroneous - Afghanistan, Pakistan and Bangladesh are all full of ex-Hindus, India is about 20% non-Hindu and their numbers are increasing. Hinduism seems to have flourished in Indonesia at one time, today Bali is the only Hindu majority island there. Sri Lanka was ruled by Hindu kings, one of whom turned out to be bad and was personally killed by Shri Ram. And there are other stories about other parts of South East Asia, Thailand's kings used to take the names King Rama I, King Rama II and so on, and they had their capital in a city called Ayutthaya (Thai way of saying Ayodhaya), The Angor Wat temple complex in Cambodia was the largest Hindu temple complex which got converted into a Buddhist temple complex. Considering all this, I would say that Hinduism has barely survived and it is on its way out because of secularization, and the nonchalant attitude of those who call themselves Hindu.

Pranam.

[Equinox]

Vannakkam Believer,

'Hinduism has survived so well' sounds erroneous - Afghanistan, Pakistan and Bangladesh are all full of ex-Hindus, India is about 20% non-Hindu and their numbers are increasing. Hinduism seems to have flourished in Indonesia at one time, today Bali is the only Hindu majority island there. Sri Lanka was ruled by Hindu kings, one of whom turned out to be bad and was personally killed by Shri Ram. And there are other stories about other parts of South East Asia, Thailand's kings used to take the names King Rama I, King Rama II and so on, and they had their capital in a city called Ayutthaya (Thai way of saying Ayodhaya), The Angor Wat temple complex in Cambodia was the largest Hindu temple complex which got converted into a Buddhist temple complex. Considering all this, I would say that Hinduism has barely survived and it is on its way out because of secularization, and the nonchalant attitude of those who call themselves Hindu.

I agree. What I said was meant to portray Hinduism's growing recognition and acceptance in other parts of the world, mainly Europe and America. Of course it's not the same case with South Asia, and Southeast Asia, due to the reasons you gave, especially the attitude of Hindus themselves!

I live in Southeast Asia myself, in Malaysia to be exact, and my God, almost everything is connected to Hinduism culturally and linguistically. It's so rich here, the amount of Hindu history left behind, makes me proud. Sanskrit definitely influenced the Malay language more than any other language in the world. I can't help noticing the similarities. Even the royal families follow Hindu protocols and procedure, including the coronation, where Sanskrit mantras are chanted ( this is done in a whispering act). Malaysia was part of a Hindu kingdom long back, thus the traditions of the locals are highly influenced by Hinduism, even their wedding ceremonies, music and dances. But they've all converted to Islam over the centuries, and now infuse Arabian Muslim stuff with Hindu traditions. In Thailand, Hinduism is more obvious, since they're Buddhists, and following Hindu rituals won't get you jailed. The king still uses the title Rama. The present king is Rama IX.

I'm worried about the future of Hinduism too, but I don't think it'll disappear, as long as the future generations maintain it. Whatever the case, it depends on Hindus themselves to safeguard the future of this amazing religion.


Aum Namah Shivaya

[Believer]

Namaste,

What I said was meant to portray Hinduism's growing recognition and acceptance in other parts of the world, mainly Europe and America.

I have lived in America for a long time and this line about Hinduism's growing influence is just imagination. If you have a couple of thousand practicing 'real Western Hindus' in a population of 350 million, that is not 'Growing Influence'. Sometimes we try to feel happy and manufacture things based on our flights of fancy.

I'm worried about the future of Hinduism too, but I don't think it'll disappear, as long as the future generations maintain it. Whatever the case, it depends on Hindus themselves to safeguard the future of this amazing religion.

You are free to assume anything you want, and we will respectfully agree to disagree. Many a times I have seen in this forum the line, 'Hinduism has been here since the birth of civilization and it will always be here'. When we don't want to do anything to keep it alive, that line works well. But if history is any proof, it will not survive for too long as us Hindus, have diminishing regard for it.

Pranam.

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam Equinox et al: Equinox, I'm surprised actually, given the rate of destruction of Hindu temples perpetrated by the Malaysian government. I know I'm not there and don't have direct information like you do, but even internationally we here about this sometimes. Have things gotten better in the last year or so?

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southea.../HG11Ae01.html

http://malayindians.blogspot.ca/2008...lished-in.html

Aum Namasivaya

[Equinox]

Well Believer,

I've thought of it often. I'm only 20, and as far as I know, none of my Hindu friends or relatives of my age group seem to bother about Hinduism. I mean they don't seem to be passionate or proud about it, even interested. They typically follow what their parents tell them, in terms of religious practices, but don't seem to do anything extra. I wrote about this in another thread once. I keep my thoughts positive though, and try my best to revive Hinduism.

http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=9500


Aum Namah Shivaya

[Equinox]

Vannakkam Eastern Mind,

As to what's happening at present, there're many stories and controversies.

In general, this is what's happening. The vast majority of Malaysian Indians, who came mostly as labourers from Tamil Nadu about 100 years ago, feel they're being sidelined by the Malay majority. So what you read in blogs and news are mostly brought-up by angry Malaysian Indians nitpicking about everything they consider unfair to them.

They've built many, many unorganised temples or shrines over the decades...thousands or so on illegal land, as well as land not allocated for religious buildings. When it's time to develop the area or make new roads, these small temples and shrines have to be demolished or shifted. Unlike in the West where everything more or less has its place or area already, Malaysia is still considered a young, developing country. So things like these do happen.

The families and people connected to the particular demolished temple or shrine, of course, become angry, and see this as unfair. But they are always given a spot elsewhere to shift the temple.

These temples were mostly built in the rubber estates and undeveloped areas, where the labourers and their descendants lived and worked for the last 100 years. So it was untouched till now, when it comes time to develop these areas. Some see this as a government conspiracy to reduce the number of Hindu temples in Malaysia, and thus kill Hinduism slowly. This might or might not be the case.

At the same time, many new mosques are being built, making these Indians angrier.

But I've also seen many smaller temples being renovated into larger, more beautiful ones, and recently the government gave some aid to develop temples in Malaysia.

The larger, richer, more well-established temples of Malaysia were built by certain ethnic groups and castes, mainly the Chettiars, Ceylon Tamils and Pillais for Saivite temples and the Telugus and North Indians for Vaishnavite temples. These temples do not face any problems from the government too, since they were built in properly purchased or government allocated land in the last 150 years. They also follow the proper Sanskrit Agamic version of temple worship.

It is the illegally built smaller temples or shrines that are facing problems now.

At present, things are definitely better, though only last week I heard of some 24/7 continuous prayer in some obscure temple that was supposed to be demolished and shifted. Don't know what happened though.

The first link you gave by Asia Times sums up the situation very well. There's more to it though, of which I'll write when appropriate.


Aum Namah Shivaya

[IcyCosmic]

Namaste,

You are free to assume anything you want, and we will respectfully agree to disagree. Many a times I have seen in this forum the line, 'Hinduism has been here since the birth of civilization and it will always be here'. When we don't want to do anything to keep it alive, that line works well. But if history is any proof, it will not survive for too long as us Hindus, have diminishing regard for it.

Pranam.

Very interesting. Your point is valid. You have stated your direct opinion very concisely, but if you don't mind could you elaborate some more? You feel there is no hope of hinduism thriving?

[sanjaya]

Well, I've thought of it often. I'm only 20, and as far as I know, none of my Hindu friends or relatives of my age group seem to bother about Hinduism. I mean they don't seem to be passionate or proud about it, even interested. They typically follow what their parents tell them, in terms of religious practices, but don't seem to do anything extra. I wrote about this in another thread once, Unconcerned Younger Generation. I keep my thoughts positive though, and try my best to revive Hinduism.


Aum Namah Shivaya

Not to detract from the topic of caste...

...but I have to say I think you're doing precisely the right thing. If my parents are are anything like the average first generation Indians (i.e. Indians who emigrate and live abroad), I'd have to say that doing the religion thing just to keep them happy would be the best way to foster apathy for Hinduism. Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to speak ill of my parents, about whom I have an excess of wonderful things to say. But most Indians who come to America don't seem to understand that in the absence of a pervasive Hindu culture, religious traditions won't survive the American melting pot. In India one doesn't have to actively hold on to Hinduism, because it simply permeates the culture. The land abounds with temples, festivals, and readily accessible Hindu literature. But if you grow up elsewhere and don't participate heavily in the local Indian community, you'll grow up absorbing whatever the dominant religion is. As you say, we younger Indians in other countries have to actively be Hindus, our our faith tradition won't last terribly long.