No Room for Hell

[Sudarshan]

If a christian tells you that you will go to hell, please ask him this question.

"Does your God know already whether I will go to hell or heaven?"

Analyze the following situations.

1. If God knows I will go to hell anyway, then ask him what purpose it serves you by converting to christianity.

2. If God knows I will go to heaven, then why not continue as a Hindu?

3. If God does not know the answer and is waiting for your actions, then ask him to ditch his concept of God which is not omniscient.

Anyway we look at it, God being all knowing, knows the past, present and future and there isn't anyone going to hell or heaven by his own effort.

To whoever makes sarcastic remarks at people of other faiths, please do not pass judgement on the fate of others and make your own God look stupid. God is much more capable than what you think - if he so wishes samsAra will cease for all this instant. Let us try to understand this divine mind first before gagging him with our self formed opinions of God.( and making him look like a Hitler just for the sake of pushing our idealogy on others)

[RamaRaksha]

Sudarshan: What they are saying is that by becoming a christian, you get automatic entry into heaven. To me it's a sickening concept, they have reduced God to a common proselytizer, only interested in furthering "his" religion. Gandhi is sent to hell, while a pedophile gets into this "heaven". I will run away screaming from this kind of heaven.

My usual response is to ask what about muslims, catholics & mormons? They also say that they alone are allowed into heaven, lol. So who is right? Everybody is wrong, and you are the only one who is right?

To me the most powerful response would be to say that our God is not a torturer. Hell is a man-made concept, because that is what we would do to a bad man, put him in jail, hurt him as much as we can. It is sad to see that we transfer these thoughts to God. We should realize that God would have better methods than using a cattle prod or boiling oil. Rama or Krishna using a cattle prod on a human, it's just not right.

With just one thought, God can turn a Hitler into the nicest, kindest man you will ever meet. Why would God need these stupid human methods?
Besides many of the bad people that we know have had a horrible childhood. For example Mike Tyson, read his upbringing. The guy grew up in the streets without a family to speak of. People don't realize how important a stable loving family is to a child growing up.

I say to a christian, "I am sorry my faith does not allow me to say you are going to hell, all good people, including atheists are welcome in my Rama's heaven. Besides, we don't have hell, God is not a torturer. He can use better methods than a cattle prod or boiling oil. He alllows us Hindus to be reborn to relearn the lessons of life".

[devotee]

Namaste,

The idea of hell is not foreign to Hinduism. As Scott has mentioned, it is called, "Naraka". And there are many Narakas & have various names too, like, "Kumbhipaak Narak" etc. It has been mentioned not only in some Puranas but in Bhagwad Gita too ... "Utsannakuldharmanam ...." (BG 1.44), "AAsurim yonimapanna ...." (BG 16.20).

Yet there is a difference between the Abrahmic concept of hell & Hindu concept of hell. In Abrahamic religions, a sinner is sent to hell for eternity. There is no second chance as there is no idea of re-birth there. Whereas in Hinduism, he suffers for some time in hell & then comes back to take birth again.

OM

[Sudarshan]

RR,

There are seven major kinds of hells described in the hindu literature. Even Brahmasutras, one of the prasthAna granthas refers to it.

api cha sapta ( 3.1.15)

So you cannot dismiss it as a purANic concept.

Also see BG 16.19 & 16.20 where the Lord warns with dire consequences for the haters of God and humanity.

Of these seven hells, five are temporary - Raurava, Maharaurava, Vahni, Vaitarani and Kumbhika. The last two are described to be eternal - Tamisra (darkness) and Andhatamisra (blinding darkness).


I dont know how you interpret the 'eternal hell' of Hinduism but every school of vedanta except the school of Sri MadhvAchAya ( tattvavAda) interpret it as a long hell transit.( and not as eternal)

The concept of eternal hell exists in Hinduism but I think it is more an arthavAda for bringing some sort of discipline in the world. Moreover, the word eternity has no meaning from the absolute standpoint because time is not absolutely real.


Those who commit grave sins inevitably go to hell after death. There is no bypassing this by arguing that God is a father. If you consider God your father then rise to the level of his son and dont make excuses! Those who continue to indulge in God hating and full of hate for others will have to go to hell for indefinite periods of time. ( may not be eternal)

[Ohduss]

I totally agree with RamaRaksha. Although I am not as informed and knowledgeable on the subject, I cannot imagine my Goddess torturing or harming me in any way. She is there to protect me and guide me. She is one with me and I am one with her. Yes I may have to return and try again to obtain Moksha, but Hell? No way.

[jaya_narayana]

namaste,

i think it's important to realize that hell is not God punishing you. in the abrahamic religions it is but not in dharma. hell is the result of your own actions. you created the karma to end up in hell. you'll go there learn the lesson then rebirth somewhere else. it is not though, god taking some sort of divine enjoyment in your suffering.

if you want to look at god as your parent, consider this metaphor. your mother tells you over and over again as a small child not to touch the hot stove. you don't listen to her and you get burnt. your mom didn't cause and she certainly does not take joy in it. eventually though the burn heals and you know not to touch the hot stove.

Jai Sri Krishna!

[RamaRaksha]

Ohduss: My thoughts exactly. That is the point I want to get across. A God who tortures and punishes is a human thought, that is what we do to criminals on earth and so we are simply imagining the same with God. It shows clearly that they have no idea of God.

Hinduism has a better way, it is called Karma. We learn the lessons of God by being born again and again in different life forms. In this life I am a Hindu, a devotee of Rama, in my next life, who knows I might be an atheist, in the next a dog, so that I may learn to love unconditionally.

Abrahamic faiths have no choice, they are stuck with a God who tortures because christians are not reborn. A Hitler would be sent to hell to be tortured, whereas a hindu "hitler" would be reborn and learn God's lessons anew. This is a better way.

We see this better way in our daily life also. Most criminals were not born bad people, life made them that way. In some jails, they are giving criminals dogs to take care of. Criminals who take care of dogs, are changing their ways they are becoming less violent! In som jails it seems they are teaching Yoga! It helps to calm the mind and they become better people.

[RamaRaksha]

Jaya Narayana: Your math is not adding up. You say that Karma follows us to the next birth but then you go to hell? If for the errors of this life, I am being hurt in hell, why is it in the next life, I am paying for the errors of the previous life again? Aren't you being punished twice?

I don't disagree that there are religious texts that talk about naraka. But these are just the imaginings of people living some time ago. This is what they imagined would happen to people and so they wrote it down. It's not like they actually went to naraka and saw this happening! It makes a man happy to think that that bad man will go to hell and suffer for what he is doing.

But we need to evolve and grow beyond the old ideas and texts, I am not saying they are bad but it is time we gave up the idea of a God who hurts people. Don't you think God has a better way? With one thought he can make you a Hitler or a Gandhi! Why would God need a naraka?

When I was a kid, one of my teachers got exasperated because we couldn't understand the point he was making, he got so angry, he took his cane and beat everyone of us. I am in my 50's now but I still remember it and still hate that man. That is not a teacher, that is a master, a king. A master who rules by orders and threats.

A teacher is one who tirelessly goes over the text again and again until you get it, and that is what karma and rebirth are. This is the better way! In this life, I am a Hindu, in my next I might be an atheist, in the next a dog! Each life gives me a new perspective, a new outlook. Our goal is Moksha, to become an enlighted person, that is not acheived thru torture and pain!

[jaya_narayana]

Namaste Rama,

i'm not quite sure what you mean about being punished twice. the way i understand it is going to hell= being reborn in hell. so if you kill people in this life (for example) the karma from such actions may not catch you in this life. if they don't they can cause you to go to hell for a period of time. once that karma is repaid you are reborn somewhere else and no longer accountable for the karma that landed you in hell. this is my very limited understanding anyway.

as for your story of the teacher. it is not god punishing us for not doing has he/she says. it is directly the results of the choices we make.

Jai Sri Krishna!

[Ohduss]

namaste jaya narayana

"hell is the result of your own actions. you created the karma to end up in hell. you'll go there learn the lesson then rebirth somewhere else."

I was under the impression that resolving karma would lead us to moksha and that we resolved our karma here on earth. If we did not resolve our karma in this physical lifetime we would be reborn to continue and hopefully edge somewhat closer to moksha.

I am a new Hindu and may not completely understand but that is partially why I am here. What is the Hindu concept of hell? Is it the fire and brimstone as taught in the Abrahamic religions, or a holding place or what?

Thank you,
Ohduss