Yoga-vasistha

[Nuno Matos]

Namaste yudhamanyu

" Those who are physically and mentally strong can realise the atman faster, than those who are weaker."

How fast?

" Only those who are physically and mentally strong can realise the Atman"

This one looks like old Nazi propaganda.I wonder what does the old slim sadhu ( Shiva ) as to say about all of that.
Dear Yudhamanyu have you ever read a book called Surveillance and Punishment from a famous western author called Michel Faulcout. It is about the body its representations and uses trough history and its relation to the control apparatus.
As far as i know one of the premises of Hinduism is that Mocksha is possible to any human being. And that patience is the mark of the saint.

Om Namah shivaya!

[Kaos]

Interesting topic.
Allow me to jump in and ask questions and perhaps share my personal thoughts. You decide.


"A healthy mind and a healthy body" is an oft quoted expression.

But really, who's mind are we talking about? Who's body?

Does the body belong to the mind? Who's mind? Where is this "mind" found?

If I am more than this aggregation of flesh and bones, am "i" the "mind"?

If the mind and body act symbiotically, and there is no difference between mind and body, then the body should not decay after death. And yet, one wonders what happens to mind?

Where does/did mind go after the decay of the physical body?

[yudhamanyu]

Namaste yudhamanyu

" Those who are physically and mentally strong can realise the atman faster, than those who are weaker."

How fast?

Faster than those who are weak in terms of health.

I have compassion for the weak, but they should also take it within their stride to strengthen themselves , as it is their duty to do so.

It is the strong who excels , either in the material field or spiritual field.

" Only those who are physically and mentally strong can realise the Atman"

This one looks like old Nazi propaganda.I wonder what does the old slim sadhu ( Shiva ) as to say about all of that.

I know very well about that idiot Hitler and his pathetic stooges.

The goal of nazism was not at all spiritual development or realisation of the atman.

It was some kind of an extollation of their so -called race and conquest of others , and not themselves.

What a bunch of idiots. This is what happens when u have no wisdom along with knowledge.



Also one more thing, buddy.

Shiva is not a slim old sadhu. He is the Lord of destruction, and wields the trident.

He himself has been known for his martial prowess as well, and not only for his meditation.

He is also known as nataraja, and he is known for his vigorous dances called the shiva tandavam.

Dear Yudhamanyu have you ever read a book called Surveillance and Punishment from a famous western author called Michel Faulcout. It is about the body its representations and uses trough history and its relation to the control apparatus.

No , I have not.

As far as i know one of the premises of Hinduism is that Mocksha is possible to any human being. And that patience is the mark of the saint.

Om Namah shivaya!

Moksha is possible for all, but much more easier for those who are physically and mentally strong.

And patience is also a virtue of the strong.

The weak are usually impatient and gets demoralised easily.

[yudhamanyu]

Interesting topic.
Allow me to jump in and ask questions and perhaps share my personal thoughts. You decide.



"A healthy mind and a healthy body" is an oft quoted expression.


But really, who's mind are we talking about? Who's body?

Ones own mind, and ones own body.

Does the body belong to the mind? Who's mind? Where is this "mind" found?

The mind and body are temporal , and indeed it is only the Self that is permanent.

But to understand this subtle fact, requires a certain amount of spiritual training and practice and work, and a strong mind and body are the instruments for it.

Where does/did mind go after the decay of the physical body?

The mind is a aggregate of the conscious mind and subconscious and is nothing but a mass of thought waves.

From my understanding , through the reincarnation of the soul in new bodies after death, the subconscious mind too follows and enters the new body.

Get ready for a new thread of mine in this topic called, " REMEMBERING YOUR PAST LIVES" in the meditation section or forum ,which will deal more with this.

[Nuno Matos]

Namaste yudhamanyu


"Shiva is not a slim old Sadhu. He is the Lord of Destruction, and wields the trident"

Check out the old representations of Shiva.

"He himself has been known for his martial prowess as well, and not only for his meditation"

"He is also known as Nataraja, and he is known for his vigorous dances called the Shiva Tandavam."

And for other things as well

A question. Are you on a hurry?

Om namah Shivaya!!

[yudhamanyu]

Namaste yudhamanyu


"Shiva is not a slim old Sadhu. He is the Lord of Destruction, and wields the trident"

Check out the old representations of Shiva.

Dude , I am a worshipper of Shiva and gone through a lot of religious literature on him . And I have seen many ancient statues and idols and pictures of his.

No need to debate me on this point.

And for other things as well

A question. Are you on a hurry?

Om namah Shivaya!!

Yeah . C u tommorow.

[satay]

Dear pal ata . What i said was with regard to the upanishadic verse , "The atman is not for the weak ."

Only those who are physically and mentally strong can realise the Atman .

What about those who are physically disabled and mentally retarded?
What should they do? How should they realise the truth?

Is this so hard to understand. Perhaps u should do some martial arts or bodybuilding to understand these subtle concepts .

Again what about those who have no legs and hands, how would you have them learn martial arts and body building so that they understand the subtle concepts?

As I said before , "A healthy mind in a healthy body. "

This quote is a marketing propaganda of health companies.

The correct mantra to realize the atma should be "no mind no body" Don't you think?

[yajvan]

Hari Om
~~~~~

Namaste,

Regarding weakness…

This notion in the upanishads is not focusing on how much one can lift up in weights, yet the Upanishads offer an invocation for health.

Om. May my limbs, speech, prana, eyes, ears and my strength all and their sense organ become full-grown and well -functioning.
The Chandogya Upanishad starts and finishes with this valli. [1.1.1 and 8.15.1]


If we look to Chapt 6 of the Bhagavad gita, Krsna advises,
Yoga, indeed, is not for him who eats too much nor for him who does not eat at all O Arjuna.
It is not for hiim who is too much given to sleep nor yet for him who is too much given to sleep
nor yet for him who who keeps awake (BG 6.16)

For him who is moderate in for and recreation, moderate of effort
In atctions, moderate in sleep and waking, for him is the Yoga which
destroys much sorrow. (BG6.17)


This weakness referred to is not about 100 kilos being lifted; IMHO it is about the notion of dhirah. This is the notion of fixity of the mind in balance. That is, a steady mind.

dhirah - lets first look at its root meaning: Dhirah comes from dhr or to hold. Note too that dhi is also there, and this is 'luminous' and many apply to dhi shakti or light of intelligence. Also Dhrti is part of this word family. From dhr to hold, yet also suggests steadfast and constant. You can then see weakness in mind is an imbalance, and ones progress can be inhibited.

So we can now have a feel for this notion of steadfast, holding, and luminous , as it relates to the intellect. A very pregnant word.

Is heath important? Absolutely. Yet as we get to finer levels of understanding, there are other things that one must consider.


pranams,

[yudhamanyu]

Is heath important? Absolutely.

pranams,

Good post, Yajvan.


Health is indeed important as is shown by the teachings of Hinduism and the personal examples of the Hindu masters.

Only with a strong body, can one have a strong mind, and then go for the grappling of the mind and its control and its conquest.

A weak person , will not have the necessary strength required , physically and mentally, for the pursuit of spiritual progress and development.

Bodhidharma , the Indian enlightened Buddhist master and founder of Zen buddhism and teacher of Kung Fu, himself was sickly as a child.

It was his subsequent focus on martial arts and yoga that got rid of his infirmities , and made him a potent figure later on in Buddhism as a great enlightened master, revered by the whole world , as the founder of Zen.

Yet as we get to finer levels of understanding, there are other things that one must consider.

Yes, when we have developed a strong body , and then subsequently a strong mind, and has reached a certain level of spiritual growth and character, we can then easily get down to finer and more subtle levels of understanding .

However first, the foundation of a good , strong mind and body should be created first, and then only will the rest come steadily and easily.

As a wise African proverb states ....

"Only a sound foundation can support a good superstructure."

[atanu]

Dear pal ata . What i said was with regard to the upanishadic verse , "The atman is not for the weak ."

Dear pal,

Thanks for considering me a pal, though I do not know what is ata? "A healthy mind exists in a healthy body", is what you said.

You should know that the body exists in mind, which exists in Pragnya, which is prakriti of Self (atman), which is Brahman.

OM